Do I get this surgery done or do I cancel it due to work?

[sha160528]

Hi,

Ive had problems with my breathing since I was a teenager and after years of going back and forth with ENT consultants I’ve finally been referred for an op.

I’ve received the date for my operation and it’s in June. However, there’s a bit of an issue as I’m on a stage 2 at work for sickness (my daughter started nursery in September last year) Usually I get on with whatever illness she brings home and shared with us but on two occasions the bug absolutely wiped me out. The second time I was admitted to hospital with suspected sepsis. As a result of those two occasions of sickness I’m on a stage 2.

If I refuse the date for surgery then they’d need to take me off of their list and I’d have to go through the whole process of being referred by my GP etc again.

My union rep has advised that I take it off as AL but I’m worried that when I go back to work they’ll think I’ve been dishonest and I’ll get in trouble.

If I take it off as sick I’d be on a stage 3 which is more serious.

Capitalism at its finest! Of course you should have your surgery! What a question!

I think it sounds like a public sector place. I work in the private sector and I cannot imagine this level of crazy going on around sickness. I have worked for a couple of places where it would just be unpaid but no one who would put you through disciplinary for having sepsis and for needing an operation.

Your union rep is wrong, if you’re not well enough to be at work, it should not be taken as sick leave. Have an honest conversation with your manager as they can use discretion. Surgery is often a self limiting condition, so employers look at it differently. I line manage and have discretion with things like this and would not move forward, I’d do a review sickness meeting and extend the monitoring period!

Your manager is correct! If you’re not well enough to be at work, it should be sickness.

Not many things shock me but that advice from your manager that you should hold off from having necessary surgery is utterly shocking imo. If I were your manager's manager I would consider this misconduct on her part as a failure of your employer's duty of care.

Please do not put off your surgery.

This. Otherwise we’ll all only be allowed to use AL if we’re in the best of health haha. (It would be absurd),

I once had a couple of weeks of annual leave but did some work on the house. Was I dishonest haha? Can you only take AL if you promise to go to the beach and lie on the sunlounger? Of course not! You can do whatever the hell you like! In fact recovering after a surgery can bring you some rest. But it’s irrelevant because they cannot police what you’re doing on your AL. You can lie on a sunlounger or on your sofa or on the hospital bed. You can go and mine gold in Klondyke or build a little house. (In fact, all well-behaved husbands ought to do some building work during AL haha).

Oh very well said. Reading this makes me think if it’s time you went to the papers…

Have the surgery. Isn’t staging done at managers discretion?

Get your union rep more involved - what you do with your a/l is up to you, sounds like your manager is trying to get rid of you..... also check the organisation's policies about time off for appointments.

Elective surgery, planned surgery, day case procedures etc would be at managers discretion where I work but use of flexible time, annual leave, unpaid leave would all be options before sick leave in our policy (NHS organisation)

I would be asking your HR not your manager.

Where I work this would not be something a manger would advise on - and I seriously doubt they would suggest putting off much needed surgery (let’s face it the NHS won’t do anything until it’s in dire need) as that could impact your health.

I second a PPs suggestion if ACAS.

I agree that it is no business of your employer what your annual leave is used for. But the only concern would be if you needed more time off to recover after the surgery. Then you would either have to take more annual leave or go sick.

You need to speak to HR and not your manager.

What you choose to do on your AL is not at the discretion of your employer.

Surgery isn’t sickness also.

Putting you on a disciplinary for something like this would be disability discrimination.

However, I would ask for the time off as unpaid leave, although you'd be fully entitled to take it as sick leave, purely because disability discrimination protection doesn't require employers to give you unlimited sick leave - if your sick leave requirements mean that you aren't actually doing the job then they are entitled to get rid of you. Therefore a short period of unpaid leave signals that you aren't taking the piss. Hopefully once the surgery is done all will be well again. But do not postpone the surgery. Your health and wellbeing is a more important priority than any employment.

I’ve booked it off as A/L. When I return to work I’ll be just under the two week post op period - hopefully she won’t be able to tell when I return … gosh I feel more anxious about my work than I do about the actual procedure

Just to clarify, when your DD is ill and you are subsequently ill, how are you recording the time off for your DD? Are you taking it as annual leave or unpaid leave, then only recording you being ill as sick leave?

You can get another job but no one can make another you. Get the surgery.

Mate what you do on your leave is your business. It has nothing to do with the company and you do not have to tell them.

Just take it as AL it is a bit rubbish but not worth risking your job.

At my work, you would automatically hit a sickness trigger if you had more than 10 days off in a rolling year, or more than 3 separate incidents. However, the manager would have discretion to look at it and say, well, she was admitted to hospital so obviously that's a lengthy one, and this is planned surgery, so I'm not going to proceed to an absence management plan. I would also not be expected to use up annual leave on surgery, it would be recorded as sick leave. Your manager is not wrong to say it should be sick leave, but she is wrong to suggest that you should postpone the procedure.

Most reasonable companies would just allow this as a planned procedure and not count it towards sick leave but it’s almost laughable that your manager has told you can’t take AL for this. What on earth has it got to do with anyone from work if you have your legally allowed time off to have this done?

OP, your manager is a bully. I would make another complaint to her manager (copying in HR) and explain that she is threatening you in an attempt to make you avoid having much needed surgery.

Just have the op. The sickness will be OK. I've just had 14 months off for surgery and I'm going back to work in 6 weeks.
You'll have your hospital letters and GP note.

Glad you’ve booked it, and you can use your al for anything you choose! Talk to hr if she says you can’t use al. All the best