Do I get this surgery done or do I cancel it due to work?

[sha160528]

Hi,

Ive had problems with my breathing since I was a teenager and after years of going back and forth with ENT consultants I’ve finally been referred for an op.

I’ve received the date for my operation and it’s in June. However, there’s a bit of an issue as I’m on a stage 2 at work for sickness (my daughter started nursery in September last year) Usually I get on with whatever illness she brings home and shared with us but on two occasions the bug absolutely wiped me out. The second time I was admitted to hospital with suspected sepsis. As a result of those two occasions of sickness I’m on a stage 2.

If I refuse the date for surgery then they’d need to take me off of their list and I’d have to go through the whole process of being referred by my GP etc again.

My union rep has advised that I take it off as AL but I’m worried that when I go back to work they’ll think I’ve been dishonest and I’ll get in trouble.

If I take it off as sick I’d be on a stage 3 which is more serious.

Follow your union rep and take it as AL, it’s not the business of the company what you do on your AL

Planed/elective surgery has always been AL situations in places I have worked, because you arent actually sick

You need to check your sickness policy

Surely you are allowed to have medical procedures on annual leave?

Really? I had a hip replacement which was planned surgery but obviously my employer did not expect me to take A/L.

I ended up being off for 6 weeks and it was all covered by doctors notes.

Another vote for having the surgery.

Book the time off as AL and once approved ask for a meeting with your manager and HR. Just claim innocence and say you have heard that it's classed as sickness....
Explain your situation-stage 2- and that you are taking this as AL unless they allow it as sickness that will not go against you. Make sure you have all this in writing.

On the other hand, you don't have to disclose any medical conditions, (so just take AL and they are never the weiser) however if the condition impacts your work during recovery sometimes it's better to tell them.

Assuming the surgery and initial recovery period is contained within the AL, absolutely no business of your employers what you do on your time off.

I'm more curious how you've ended up at stage 2- if you were in hospital with sepsis surely that can be evidenced and therefore not be considered towards attendance management?

You need to be able to breathe properly! Your long term health is more important than your boss giving you a 'black mark' against your name for being off work for a medical procedure.

I've just been referred to the ENT for my deviated septum and I'm hoping they'll be able to fix it. Don't waste your appointment! You'll still need the surgery but it could take years to get another one.

Will they even approve AL?

There is usually some flexibility, but unless OP has a condition which is likely to be considered a disability under the Equality Act 2010, then all sickness absence is valid for a management process. It’s about ability to do the job, not the genuineness of the absence.

@Mkuter they didn’t ask for evidence. I did say I can provide it but she said it’s done by x amount of instances in x time so evidence is not relevant

How would they know you'd had surgery?

I’d read policy and ensure advice from union in writing as that doesn’t seem correct to me. Where I work a manager has discretion so a planned surgery wouldn’t trigger next stage. Using leave to try and circumvent policy would be an issue.
Could you book a meeting with manager and hr/union.

Have the surgery. If you turn it down, you will probably have a really long wait. If they try and use this as a reason to dismiss you on health grounds, surely your union would support you and fight this decision as the surgery would help reduce the amount of sick leave you currently take.

No wonder we've got so many people unable to work if getting treatment for something is penalised. How on earth have we lost sight that humans get sick from time to time because they're human and no amount of disciplinary action or sacking people or just demanding they don't get ill actually changes that?

I'd be having the operation and following your reps advice to request annual leave for it, though you now face the issue that the manager knows it's for your operation and is likely to deny the AL request just because they can and force you into sickness and stage 3 - what happens at stage 3?

@Cakeandusername my manager and I haven’t got the best working relationship as I’ve complained about her to her manager in the past in relation to some comments she’d previously made that were inappropriate in my opinion. Since then she’s kind of nit picked at everything I do so she’s already told me it would need to be off as sick which would trigger a stage 3 so if she was me she’d hold off from getting it done

Give ACAS a call for advice. Sounds like your employer is making up the rules as they go along. They can't dictate what you do whilst on annual leave.

@S0j0urn4r depends on how your recovery is but after nasal surgery most people can have bruising/nose bleeds which would make it obvious that I’ve had surgery

I'd argue that if its a condition that's affected you for 12 months or more, it could be classed as a disability under the Act, and therefore not be a trigger?

Have the surgery. Have the surgery, just had it why are you second guessing it, no one can tell you what to do during your annual leave. Don’t tell them. X

Well in this case it's better for OP to take annual leave.

However, in general, if an operation is medically necessary then you are 'sick' in some way, aren't you? And what about recuperation time? Even after my tooth operation I wasn't able to work straight away. I was lucky that it was the weekend anyway, but if not, I would have been on sick leave surely because the doctor had said I should not work.

What awful company do you work for? If you're sick, you're sick!

Of course you can take annual leave. If it's an issue then I'd bypass your direct manager and go straight to the manager above her. Some people should just not be managers.

Sounds like the NHS. I’d call ACAS as a PP suggested, read your policies, and set up a meeting with your union rep, HR, and your occupational health dept, and the managers, if feasible. I’m currently on a stage 2, and managers do have discretion, meeting with HR is standard for us at this point, but your workplace manager is adding to your stress. Whilst you’re recovering after surgery, look for another job! Good luck!

Do as advised by your Union, make sure you have their advice in writing.

Do you have a HR person you can speak to?

It would be worth getting on record that you feel your manager is putting you under presume to cancel a long waited for ENT operation by threatening stage 3 sickness/ saying you can't use AL for the procedure.

This.

you've had 2 periods of sickness in 7 months. It's hardly excessive by any means. i can't even understand how you have been put on stage 1 sickness never mind stage 2. unless there is something youve not told us.

It sounds as if your manager is trying to get rid of you. I would definietly be seeking legal advice