Am I a bad mother for liking my step-daughter more

[Clariey]

Okay first of all, I want to clarify, I love my daughters more than I love anyone on this planet, that’s not what this is about.

Background, I have 2 daughters, they are 19 and 21. Lovely girls, both still live at home and I think like most families we have our issues but I love them deeply. As they have gotten older I’ve struggled at times with “liking” them, it’s tricky to explain, as they have all the traits one would want their child to have, they are kind and intelligent, they are funny and in every way I’m proud of them.
However there are traits they both have that sometimes irritate me, a lack of self-awareness, a desperate need to follow every trend and sometimes I feel they lack any originality and seem to be incapable of thinking truly for themselves. We can’t discuss politics as they just regurgitate opinions heard on social media, they pick holidays based on wherever some influencer has said is cool. It often feels like I could be talking to any late teen/early 20s girl. This frustrates me as I’ve always believed in the power of forming your own thoughts and opinions, I feel like this often what makes someone really interesting.

My step-daughter is 22, she moved in with us in September as she moved to the uk for her masters. I never really knew her before this, my husband and her mother were never a couple, she was raised by her mother in one country most of the year then spent summers with her dad in another. When she first moved in with us, I found her hard to read, intensely private and to be honest I didn’t really get her or like her. I loved her as an extension of my husband but didn’t really know her as an individual. Over the months I’ve gotten to know her and I have realised I really like her as a person. She doesn’t seem fussed by trends, not in a contrarian way where if something is trendy she must hate it, more in a I like what I like regardless of the popularity sense. She is incredibly intelligent, she reads books by authors I’ve never heard of, is capable of having meaningful conversations about most topics, from politics to feminism and history. She’s happy to have her view point challenged and her supporting arguments are never “such and such on TikTok said such and such”. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think she is perfect, I think she can be extremely cynical and seems to be permanently dissatisfied with the world.

Lately I’ve felt like I’d rather talk to my stepdaughter than my own children, not because I don’t love my children or enjoy their presence but I sometimes find their life boring. They surround themselves by people who are just like them, all caught up in a whirlwind of trends. Conversations quickly turn to arguments as they get defensive if I ever question a thought process (my theory here is they don’t have a thought process but rather they are regurgitating an opinion, they can’t defend it or talk about it in any real depth as it’s not their own).

On the flip, I feel like my step-daughter challenges me intellectually which I really enjoy. She teaches me things I never knew, has recommended some books to me which have left me feeling haunted and changed as a person. Equally she is receptive to criticism, she is open to discussing anything in depth and being challenged on her views and even conceding that her own opinions aren’t always correct. I know partially it is because she isn’t my daughter, we don’t have the same bond or relationship and probably look at each other more as equals than my own daughters and I do (I think they view me as past my best and a relic of the past while I often view them as naive and immature). Then there is the fact that my step-daughter grew up in a very different world to my own, learning about her childhood, her home city and her culture is all fascinating to me.

Last night I was chatting to my step-daughter and my own daughter wanted to change the topic to a date she had been on recently. I realised I felt a sense of dread at hearing about it as it’s always the same story with a different character. However when my step-daughter goes to share a story from a date she’s been on I am keen to listen, this is because she often has more profound views on the dates, her standards for men are higher and she’s attracted to more interesting people. I felt awful afterwards as in my mind my own children should be my priority, I should be grateful that they want to let me into their life and me being bored by it makes me feel like a bad mother, they are my own flesh and blood, how can I be anything but excited to hear what they have to share?

Now I can’t sleep, I feel like I’ve let my children down in some way, both by comparing them to my step-daughter when they are wonderful people in their own right but also by failing to instil some of these qualities in them.

Has anyone else ever felt like this? Am I awful and unreasonable for feeling this way?

I've got three older women here at the moment after an earlier meeting: one used to be chief executive of a big London borough, another founded and ran her own recruitment agency business, one is a retired professor. I asked all three if they talked to their mothers about their relationships when they were in their 20s and they were all horrified at the thought.

We all learned about life by talking to friends and peers and working stuff out on our own, for ourselves. We learned to be independent by not living at home with mum and dad and remaining in a child-like dependent state for any longer than we had to. They need to be leaving home, going to college, living independently and doing things that will help them develop resilience — which is what the OP's step-daughter seems to have learned.

They have no idea of the history, and refuse to take the time to learn it.

They are not interested in politics or history and that's okay. You shouldn't expect your children to be a mini you or someone to have discussions about history with. I think you need to go out more OP.

Don't discount genetics too. I have two DDs, 22 and 20, and the eldest sounds like your SD. Interested in arguing, in viewpoints, reads widely, takes little on trust and never jumps on bandwagon. Youngest is much more #bekind, less challenging, less interested in the world and politics. Same parents, same upbringing. Both at uni, both have travelled independently. I find it easier to have long and interesting and challenging conversations with my eldest. My youngest is much less stressful to be around though!

They were born the way they are. No doubt youngest will mature but I think we underplay the effects of genetics in personality- how we respond to opportunity, whether we are open and seek challenge, whether we tolerate conflict. Upbringing and culture, and exposure to lots of cultures, of course, develop different aspects of a person but the building blocks are already there.

It sounds a bit like you are a maturer version of your DDs, and SD is different. Sounds like your DDs need to see a bit more of the world (I think this also of my youngest) and mature a bit. Shoehorning them into the world is not always easy though, particularly if they enjoy their nice comfy unchallenging lives!!

Very well said - I agree with you.

That’s is true about the difference between 19 and 23

I wonder how much of this is because your SD finds you interesting? I have a 26 y/o daughter who has next to zero interest in me, finds my views too right wing, rolls her eyes at me etc, and it's a horrible feeling, almost like I am a non-person. Just recently I had the eye roll treatment, because I advised her not to travel abroad without travel insurance. Long haul to a third world country too - but apparently I was "wrong" for making this suggestion. 🙄On the other hand, I have friends in their 30's (I'm 55), and I am self employed and some of my customers are in their 20's and 30's and they find me hilarious, so I'm obviously not the fuddy duddy that she thinks I am. People who like you, make you feel better about yourself, don't they?

🎯

And anyone who ventures a view outside that is wrong or toxic or outdated or suffering from some personality disorder than can diagnose because they watched a different online video about it or simply because they are, as op has been called, an “ intellectual snob.”

It’s nothing to do with culture. You raised your kids. They are what you made them. If you don’t like them, that’s on you, not them.

😆👏

You sound like an insufferable intellectual snob in many ways.

What? You think that wishing your children showed more critical thinking skills, that they fact-checked and didn't accept random views promoted on TikTok as gospel, that they read widely and therefore gained perspectives on history and different cultures and ways of doing and thinking about things — you think that is insufferable? I'd suggest you expect far too little of your children.

There is nothing snobbish about wanting to be well-educated and informed. I live in a part of the world where in many towns there is still a building that used to be the Working Men's Institute or similar: where ordinary working class men — miners, steel-workers — used to meet to learn, discuss, read and broaden their knowledge and horizons. Would you have called them snobs?

I posted earlier about thinking about attachment styles and how it can be easier for avoidant people to get closer to people where there is not so much emotional baggage.

Anyway, I have been thinking more about this and I wanted to tell you my experience as an adoptive parent to two girls, who are both now adults.

I have lost count of the number of women/mothers who have taken a thoroughly inappropriate interest in my daughters. And the girls loved it and fed right into it. A neighbour used to refer to my younger daughter as "my other daughter".

This is classic insecure attachment territory. It is too scary to get close to people so you keep them at bay and have compensatory relationships with less involved people instead.

Right from nursery my girls were attracting these women - it's highly complicated in their case due to their experiences in their birth family and foster care, which made them indiscriminately affectionate.

But this was catnip to a certain type of woman. These women tended to have daughters who they weren't that happy with for whatever reason- along come my two, feeding them what they wanted....

Obviously this isn't entirely the same scenario but it smacks of it.

Step daughter is a substitute for reasons that the OP would do well to explore. I bet it has nothing to do with views on world affairs, coming from another culture etc.

You think Rogan and Tate are "highly intellectual" and read "intellectual books"!?!??!?!?! They really don't. They are anti-intellectual: They appeal to those who don't have an education or critical reasoning skills because they are easy to manipulate. It's bizarre that you would compare the two situations!

It seems you have a personal dislike of anyone who is, by your definition "intellectual" - it's not clear what you mean by that. There are plenty of very well read people with professional jobs who have travelled the world and can have a reasoned debate on many subjects who also love to watch love island and paint their nails. There is absolutely nothing wrong with rejecting social media. And being intelligent would of course mean she has very little choice about sounding intelligent - are you suggesting that people who are intelligent should force themselves to sound ignorant??

The difference is intellectual curiosity and an interest in bettering oneself/learning about the world/challenging one's own assumptions or ideas etc etc. Reverse/inverted snobbery is unpleasant and typically indicates a lack of self-confidence - perhaps you should examine why you hold these viewpoints?

Sounds like you think you're above your "cool girl" daughters.

Are they popular and you weren't? Is that the problem, that you feel like you don't get them becaise theunwouldnt be your froends at school and so are rejecting them first?

They will grow emotionally but you will only be their mum at this age and stage once.

Because she sounds insufferable. Her daughters are happy, intelligent and funny according to her. And they have different opinions to her so and reading between the lines it sounds like OP tries to draw them in to a debate about anything they disagree with her on, she dismisses their opinions as ill-informed and as regurgitated and demands their sources. If they are intelligent then both can’t be true can it. I know people like that and it’s draining. The type of person who plays ‘devils advocate’ like bore off, you pseudo-intellectual.

People are allowed to have a basic opinion on things, not everyone needs to be well informed and well read on every topic. And my annoyance is mainly with people responding about how that’s just the UK now, shallow, or how the young generations are all thick due to social media. Every generation bashes the younger generation like the countries going to pot, but yet we still continue to function, life carries on moving and then that young generation grows up and starts accusing the next generation of ruining the perfect society that they supposedly grew up in

" would bet my right arm that they are whole, considered, aware people who have formed their own opinions and thought processess. Because most people who are "kind, intelligent and funny" - as you say your daughter's are - do."

I disagree. A lot of people who are genuinely intelligent do stupid things like re-post obvious scams on Facebook.

I think you’re overthinking this and being judgemental, putting people into boxes.

Just enjoy all the girls’ company, they will all have their positives and negatives as do you. I would ask your girls questions about what they’ve read or what they’re saying, don’t just shut them down. They will start to feel inadequate.

Your girls are young and probably a bit immature, don’t write them off. But try and spend time with them doing what they like too, build positive relationships with them. They may surprise you.

That’s not what I said, I said men see them as highly intellectual because they talk about how intellectual they are. You missed the point entirely.

I don’t think that’s fair at all.

As parents we all battle against outside influences we don’t think are edifying or enriching.

I think where op is coming across as a bit neglectful is that it is the arrival of the SD that has thrown it into sharp relief for her just how much impact these influences have. But she did say she had been feeling something like this for a while now - and perhaps it is actually her love goggles that have blinded her a little.

We do have a cultural crisis, it will affect our children and has already affected plenty of us.

To that extent this thread is exactly the sort of conversation we should all be having.

Far better than yet another thread with the inevitable posts: “your MIL is a toxic narc…” as the height of analytical contribution.

Why did both your girls stay at home for university?

"And the girls loved it and fed right into it. A neighbour used to refer to my younger daughter as "my other daughter"."

Why is that necessarily wrong. I know of non-related people being considered 'like' grandparents and family friends being called aunties (and considered aunties). Also, aunts who say they love their nieces/nephews like their own or who consider their cousins' children to be as close as their nieces/nephews. I don't see what's wrong with it.

Your daughters are the products of your genes and your upbringing, especially as they did not move away for University so have had less exposure to other people's views apart from yours.

I wonder if you would feel the same about their supposed limitations if your step-daughter hadn't come to live with you? You have mentioned that your daughters are kind, in fact more kind that your step-daughter and they have obviously accepted their step-sister coming to live in their home without resentment or jealousy. Those are great qualities that you should be grateful for, rather than comparing them to their step-sister and finding them lacking.

Your younger daughter is also quite a bit younger than your step-daughter which could also mean that, like a lot of young people, that her thinking is more black and white and less nuanced than her step-sister's. Perhaps, your daughters feel more passionate about the Israel/Palestine conflict than your step-daughter who approaches the issues more pragmatically because she is less invested.

Unclear why suggesting someone should get travel insurance would be "right wing". It's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. Though perhaps the context of the conversation meant that she was rolling her eyes at something else/your tone and not the insurance suggestion. From the sounds of it perhaps you don't really want her to go to those third world countries whether or not she has insurance??

If you don't like the tone/manner of the she speaks to you/rolls her eyes then pick a time when you are both actually getting on okay and ask her what about your views etc she finds perplexing, and point out that she can make her viewpoints known without being what, to you, seems rude/obnoxious - but only do that if you are open to what she tells you and don't immediately get defensive. Unclear what you mean by "right wing" but her dislike of some of your views may be very well founded - and may be ones that she finds deeply distasteful. Difficult to say what those might be without more information. I do know people who will not visit with their parents/In-laws anymore, for example, because they use racist/sexist/homophobic language. Or they loathe immigrants/asylum seekers; or they support politicians like Trump/Farage (i.e. misogynistic racists) which someone who isn't a misogynistic racist simply cannot support/condone. I have in the past had to correct family members who have said blatantly inappropriate things: they don't like it, but they need to be told that I will not spend time with people who say things like that - and that if they want to see me they will have to correct that unacceptable behaviour. That puts the onus on them to make the decision: if it's important to them to keep being a racist then they don't get to have me in their life anymore. Period.

That's not actually what you said, though, is it? Re-read your comment: it's not at all clear.

Sometimes it’s money.

But we can’t expect three years of eating pot noodles in student halls to do all the unpicking … And not going away doesn’t mean you don’t get the actual education.

I think we are eyeballing the wrong culprit here.

I think you are over thinking it. Your step daughter is not, in actual fact, really your step daughter. She is a young adult that you met when she is well on the way to becoming fully formed. Step daughters really are those you helped bring up. And I imagine, had you done so, there would be things that would irritate you about her, just like there will be things you do that irritate your daughters. Family is different because you can get irritated and love them more than life itself at the same time. I imagine, that as you are not this women's Mother, she probably speaks to you differently and talks to you about different things. She doesnt need to get that kind of support from you because she has a mother. You love your daughters and they are amazing people and no where near being fully formed. Your step daughter is really just another adult who is becoming a friend, who stimulates you in a way a friend should. Dont worry about it.

I think in context with everything else I said the sarcasm was extremely clear