Winter fuel payments

[dearydeary]

I have just heard on the news that this is being discussed again and they are considering reinstating them.

While I think that people who are on a lower income (pension credit for example) may need additional help I do not think this should be a universal benefit any more.

It appears the government is still looking for votes. What about everyone else in society? Younger people at universities or just starting out? Individuals with disabilities?

Surely we need to be moving to a more means tested approach as the finances need rebalancing?

Where pensioner need help, I am happy to support but many older folk have benefited from good pensions, valuable house price increases and a stable employment market. This is not the situation for many of us any more.

Have I lost the plot?

Most pensioners I know. != “significant percentage of pensioners”.

Actual data shows UK pensioners on some of the lowest pensions in Europe, a third in fuel poverty and the significant majority will not go into residential care.

When posters say “all the pensioners I know are rich” it tells me more about the PP than UK pensioners.

You are actually making our point for us. Most people of that generation did not need to go to university to have fulfilling careers that paid all their bills, usually enabled one spouse to be a SAHP, and build up assets debt-free. Nowadays you need a degree for most admin jobs. A degree costs on average £50k in debt. And the likelihood of earning anything close to what the buying power of the older generations had is pretty much zero. The rules have changed. The ladder has been pulled up.

I use this example a lot in these discussions. One of my favourite films is Ethel and Ernest. Based on Raymond Brigg’s parents. They were able to buy a three bedroom house in Wimbledon on a milkman’s salary after WWII. How many milkmen would it take to buy that same house now?

Just like today’s pensioners paid for the two generations before them.

But the demographics aren't the same which is the issue!

I’m not disagreeing with you about the benefits of older people using the bus. What I am saying is that they should not need to be incentivised to do so. If we are all a community the how about paying it forwards from their side too?

I don't know, why don't you go and ask my mother why she allowed herself to be raped by my father...

Yep look at @C8H10N4O2post on the reality for some pensioners.

You cannot compare UK state pensions and the state pensions of other European countries. The reason? We have occupational pensions too, and most other European countries have occupational pensions BUILT INTO state pensions. Take the average occupational pension and add that that to the state pension, then compare and you’ll see that the UK pension is average in Europe.

Most of them didn’t go to university and were at work from 16, 15 or even 14 depending on exactly when they were born.

I'm a millennial & paid NI since I was 17 & throughout uni. I'm not unusual.

No you are still describing mostly the better off - at least the middle incomes. I knew milkmen growing up, none of them owned their own homes until the council house sell off at which point some did.

I’ve no idea how Raymond Briggs’ parents could afford a nice semi and a SAHP before then because none of the parents iin my working class community could dream of it. The cost of a degree was irrelevant - very few boys went to university and even less girls. They didn’t take up “satisfying and rewarding” careers, they took jobs. Often tedious manual or semi skilled jobs which at best might have some supervisory potential. They regularly didn’t have workplace pensions, some of the men did.

Remember the census routinely recorded working class women as “home duties” despite their doing long hours of shift type work to fit around family responsibilities. They still worked, even if it wasn’t naice MN approved careers.

Incidentally the same bizarre identity group based calculations which claim pensioners are all millionaires make millennials set to be even richer. That’s is how useful identity politics is compared to actual needs (or class) based.

Me too.

Same here. I am 37 and I got my first PT job at 12 years old. No exaggeration. I worked throughout studies, university, postgrad and PhD. I recently “treated” myself to some unpaid leave so I could have a month off work as I was close to burnout. Before that, I had not had longer than two weeks off work for 15 years. I still have at least 30 years to go before I can collect my pension. By that point I will worked in some way, shape or form for 55 years. But yeah, I’m just lucky I guess.

I would ask my dead father why he allowed himself to have a and injury at work and then only be able to do certain that were only low paid after.

So much f ignore

I’m X boundary and have paid deductions since my first daily paper round job at 13. I don’t delude myself that the pennies per week of my paper round money was a serious contribution to the national economy.

I’m talking about people entering the full time workplace at 16,15 and 14 and no longer being in education. Most of whom would also have been doing paper rounds and other casual jobs from much earlier.

Stange she'd continue having so many kids if she knew they'd be going hungry.

The winter fuel allowance should have been changed to a means tested benefit but I do not agree with removing bus passes.

I would not want to see people using cars that really shouldn't because they can not afford to travel.

@C8H10N4O2 what deductions did you pay at 13?

I’m talking about people entering the full time workplace at 16,15 and 14

When did the majority of people enter full time work at 14?

You are still making my point for me I’m afraid. The safety net was there regardless. Council housing was functional. Right to buy was used by many. It is simply not there anymore.

At one point my dad was supporting a family of five on a factory wage in London. He could afford to run a car. We ate well. Had secure housing through the council. That is the safety net. It does not exist anymore. So I would love it if the government could maybe start doing some future planning for the next generations of pensioners who currently have no safety net never mind a safety net when they eventually manage to retire. Because that is the ticking time bomb.

Just because your circle don’t need it, it doesn’t mean that others don’t. There are lots of pensioner out there who have struggled over the winter due to it being withdrawn from them as their state and private pension is just above the cut of for pension credit. Single/widowed/divorced women will be disproportionately affected due to child rearing, part time working, being excluded from occupational pension schemes etc etc.

No I don't like child poverty. Neither does Farage. That's why he's reversing the 2 DC cap inserted by Tory's and not reversed by Labour who bang on about child poverty yet in power do nothing to stop it. Farage voted against the 2 child cap whilst Labour MP's voted to keep it, or a few abstained. Labour say one thing in opposition then do opposite in power. 2 faced Labour.

Goodness, you sound very unhappy, why don't you try and reframe things in your mind to think you don't have to be a victim.

By not spending £145 per night to put illegal immigrants into 4* hotels is one way. To cut out wasteful Quangos where MP's are voted in yet contract the work out to the Quangos is another way. KS said he'd cut these yet they have gone up since he's been in power. By cutting out the wasteful crap. Where I live local Labour council was paying £43k to pay for taxi to get 1 DC to special school. Common sense would dictate a taxi firm coming from either town DC lived in or town they were going to. No local Labour got taxi firm over 35 miles away to come for DC then took him to school then drove almost 45 miles back to their base. DC lives 20 miles from school. Local taxi firms who take other DC available but no Labour love wasting tax payers money. This has been reported to newly elected Reform councillor who will look into business case and auditing.

It’s not rubbish, I speak to pension age people all the time about it. My in laws for example, didn’t need a deposit. It was standard to have 100% mortgages all those years ago. Only one of them worked while she brought up children in the early years, extremely average jobs. Had a 4/5 bed house in the South East. That just wouldn’t be possible now

There’s always exceptions to rules and extenuating circumstances but it’s really bloody annoying when you can’t just admit you had it easier. Way easier. Doesn’t mean you didn’t work hard still. There’d be a lot less resentment between the generations if you just conceded a bit.

Interesting.

Reform's Manifesto last year stated the
following :

REFORM UK 2024

Enforce a 2-Strike Rule for Job Offers

All job seekers and those fit to work must find employment within 4 months or accept a job after 2 offers. Otherwise, benefits are withdrawn.

Face to Face, Not Remote Assessments for Benefits

Personal Independence Payment and Work Capability Assessment should be face to face.

We will require independent medical assessments to prove eligibility for payments.

If unemployed adults have their benefits cut as a result of not complying with these policies, what do the children of such parents do? Starve?

Equally, tax relief for those sending their kids to private school, to incentivise people not to use the state system. I'm really not seeing all this concern for child poverty!

Sounds to me like they'll look at raising the threshold not making it universal again as they're saying ensuring more pensioners are eligible. They're not saying all. Surely this seems to be what most people want.

Yes, I know deliberately keeping who worked and paid NI often for 40 years below those who get given PC topped up to higher than state pension because they didn't work or pay NI contributions is shameful and encourages people not to bother working because if you don't work you'll get more than those who do.