Winter fuel payments

[dearydeary]

I have just heard on the news that this is being discussed again and they are considering reinstating them.

While I think that people who are on a lower income (pension credit for example) may need additional help I do not think this should be a universal benefit any more.

It appears the government is still looking for votes. What about everyone else in society? Younger people at universities or just starting out? Individuals with disabilities?

Surely we need to be moving to a more means tested approach as the finances need rebalancing?

Where pensioner need help, I am happy to support but many older folk have benefited from good pensions, valuable house price increases and a stable employment market. This is not the situation for many of us any more.

Have I lost the plot?

No they don’t. Very, very few of today’s pensioners get an enhanced state pension because it was more tax efficient to contribute to a workplace or private pension.

That's not the case, most people over retirement age have some form of occupational or private pension.

There's a faction within the labour party who are exceptionally focussed on not cutting any area of welfare, regardless of how rational it seems. They often sit in constituencies with high levels of local economic dependency on state support, or very elderly populations, and know that however it is spun this is just a chunk less money flowing through their local economies.

Try reading what I wrote. I might have missed the word basic out but I definitely stipulated state. 🙄

I wonder if the writers of some of the frankly quite spiteful posts on here about Boomers realise that they will be the older generation one day and when they are, will think they had a much harder time than youngsters? It's what every generation does, although today's younger families seem particularly convinced that no one has ever had things harder than they have.
Back to pensioners, I agree the WFP should not be universal, but have no idea how it could be economically means-tested.
However, the Govt does need to keep an eye on unintended consequences of only offering payments, bus passes etc to poorer pensioners because that will mean it becomes less sensible to plan for retirement if doing so means you miss out on these things.
I think an element of responsibility could come into play as younger generations retire too. I am 58 and have had the opportunity to pay into a workplace pension from my first day at work at 19. If I choose not to do so, that's on me, but it's unfair that I should have more of a safety net because I am poorer because of my own actions. Workplace pensions were common from the mid 1980s so there's really no excuse for anyone of my age or younger pleading poverty when they retire.

I'm a not quite boomer Gen X and no I won't be saying that the youth of today have it easy. I look at people in their 30s struggling to find a decent place to rent let alone be able to buy a house/start a family. I look at families where childcare costs eat up more than one salary, I look at young people coming out of uni and not being able to find even a basic admin job and being crippled with the 50K of debt to get the degree most admin jobs now require. How can I possibly think that they have it better than I did? I came out of uni and DH and I bought a 30 bed 1930s semi in a nice neighbourhood on two graduate trainee salaries. Since then the salaries have tripled and the house price has octupled. So no it isn't easier for young people today. Meanwhile my parents are sitting on substantial index linked occupational pensions that are way more than they spend in a mortgage free home and they still complained that they lost their winter fuel allowance.

What additional pension? I get the state pension and nothing else.

It certainly is not fair for someone to get universal credit plus help with god knows what else and not have to pay tax. I don't get help with council tax, gas, electric etc

I bloody paid tax on my earnings for over 40 years and should not be paying it now on a STATE PENSION

Whilst I agree with most of what you have written, unless you have a public sector pension, your pension can drop dramatically due to the stock market fluctuations, or raids by the government which can impact on the most diligent. The Equitable Life debacle caused chaos for many, including my husband and his retirement plans went out of the window.

Access to occupational pensions such as NHS were very restricted to some part time staff (very likely those who had reduced hours due to having children), and whilst this was rectified in 1991, not everyone would have been in a position to have filled the gap. So access to occupational pensions, especially for women working part time, was not widespread until 1990s. There have been other bars on joining pension schemes such as having had to work for the organisation for a number of years before being eligible even if male and working full time (armed forces is one example). Those whose families never had any form of pension beyond the state pension are unlikely to have encouraged their children to pay into a pension, so there was lack of knowledge and expectations on some of the current older pensioners in particular. At times pensions were seen as something for ‘rich’ people. But things have now changed dramatically certainly around knowledge and expectations.

Sorry I really don't understand what you're saying here. WHY shouldn't you pay it on your state pension if it's over the tax threshold? Everyone else pays tax on earnings over the threshold and if you're working age you pay higher rate because there's also NI - which pensioners don't have to pay even though it's just another tax.
Why would you be special? Workers are already paying your pension (fair enough) why should you not have to pay tax when they do?

Some Council Tax banding’s are incorrect. I’m in a property that is placed in Band E, the exact same properties on my Road and another Road are Band D. I have challenged this and they won’t change it, the banding system is too random 🤔

Boomer pensioner here, obviously have not read the whole thread.

• winter fuel should be means tested
• Labour reinstating it makes them look weak and shallow
• id far rather “my” winter fuel went on disability allowances or mental health provision
• my kids do have some things harder than I did
• I had some things far harder than they will - being a woman, or disabled, or having mental health problems, or being autistic, or being gay were much harder back in the ‘70s, believe me

FWIW I’m also a Waspi, and knew very well that my state pension wouldn’t come until I was 66

You don’t pay it on the basic pension. You pay it on the earnings related portion. Just like I pay tax on my occupational pension over the threshold. It’s quite unbelievable that anyone should reach pension age and stamp their foot like a toddler, shouting “It’s not fair”. Compare yourself with other pensioners, not people on other benefits.

Agreed. The tax (and NI for that matter) should be the same for everyone. There is no reason why a pensioner with an income of say 20k should not pay tax and NI.

I get on perfectly well with my parents, thank you - they're not quite of the age to receive the WFP anyway and shouldn't be eligible when they are old enough. I have actually told them that it's up to them if they want to blow every last penny on round-the-world cruises (not that they would want to), I can't stand the fighting that some families have over inheritances.

Pensioners should be no more protected from cuts than anyone else. Many don't see the state pension as a benefit, whilst they lament having paid tax to prop up the unemployed, disabled or single parents.

WFA should be means tested and other universal entitlements should also be considered. At least until the UK's financial outlook is strong enough to look at this again.

Exactly what I was going to say. It falls into category that of you don't save and take care of your own needs then the government will bail you out. Like care homes.

We need to start taking personal responsibility.

So in 1975 houses were worth four times a manual worker's income?

What would that manual worker be earning on average these days? £30k? For all workers the average is £37k. The average house price is just shy of £300k (£680k in London). So the house price to income ratio getting on for around 1:10 now, far worse in London.

I'm just a fan of road safety in general, to be honest. And it's not just pensioners, I advocate for better walkable infrastructure, bicycle infrastructure, and public transport for all, while also being generally in favour of reducing speed limits and having a crackdown on poor driving standards.

I agree, I hate riding my bike to shifts which start around drop off/pick up time. I'd gladly ban cars entirely from around schools.

Even so, it's a fact that eyesight and reaction times decline from a certain age. Regular retesting and medical assessments should happen in order to renew licences - currently every 10 years until 70 and every 3 years afterwards. No more just filling the form in, claiming no medical issues and getting your licence in the post.

Wales did a revaluation in 2003 and is now changing the law so that revaluations will happen every five years.

Personally I'd prefer it changed to a charge based on the size of a property's footprint, which is a less subjective measure than value, and would reflect the fact that a larger individual property requires more in public services than a dense development. Agricultural land, and land set aside for nature would be exempt, of course.

Yes but their council tax probably went up 5 per cent, utilities up, insurance up too, plus of course food.

Well just so you know - I'm in work. Full time. Have 2 kids. My raise this year was £498. For the year. Before tax. And I have a mortgage to pay, wrap around childcare, food for all of us. Where's my WFA? Luke you said council tax has gone up, food has gone up, my transport costs to work have gone up. Oh and I don't get free prescriptions or bus pass.
So really, that £1,000 extra looks pretty good to me

So did everyone else’s. Our council tax is now 10% of one of our incomes. We still don’t need WFA.

Many working people get UC top up though. Pensioners don't get those.

Completely agree 😊