Winter fuel payments

[dearydeary]

I have just heard on the news that this is being discussed again and they are considering reinstating them.

While I think that people who are on a lower income (pension credit for example) may need additional help I do not think this should be a universal benefit any more.

It appears the government is still looking for votes. What about everyone else in society? Younger people at universities or just starting out? Individuals with disabilities?

Surely we need to be moving to a more means tested approach as the finances need rebalancing?

Where pensioner need help, I am happy to support but many older folk have benefited from good pensions, valuable house price increases and a stable employment market. This is not the situation for many of us any more.

Have I lost the plot?

All those of you who obviously hate your elderly relatives, parents and in laws will be refusing any gifts or inheritance from them in the future, yes?

I think they got the thresholds wrong for cutting off and it's good that they have recognised this and are taking steps to address it.

But overall, it's absolutely right that this benefit is means tested. Not just because of the government finances, but because of the optics.

What hope have young people got these days? They are paid low wages that barely cover rent in a house share, public transport is crap, those that have gone to uni are saddled with debt.

"But hey kids, need to tighten that belt a little more because Bob and Sue in their five bed mortgage free house and their two holidays a year need to have a £300 bung each year to stop them voting for Reform."

We're a joke of a country.

They need to look at AA next. Over £400 a month my MIL takes of this non means tested benefit, buys in no care and puts in the bank, yet her and FIL have over £1m worth of assets.

God it’s depressing all this hate for family, or is it envy?

I genuinely do not understand the argument that older people need to be incentivised to use public transport. What about the rest of us? What incentives do we get? How are we supported? How does the state ensure we can keep the lights on and heat our homes?

The way that society is stratified once you are of pensionable age is so strange to me. Not all pensioners are the same or need the same level of support, just like not all adults or children do, yet we seem to have become a country that absolutely ploughs resource and support into supporting pensioners across the board with no consideration for differences in income and need. It’s bizarre. And before posters start on the “they’ve worked their whole lives” narrative: haven’t we all? And it’s not about money in versus money out for me, but rather a consideration of the fact that not every single person in this country above the age of 67 has the same needs.

To be fair this tension between generations is not a new thing, and I have met plenty of pensioners who think people from my generation (millennials) are work shy and lazy. So it’s swings and roundabouts really.

I agree, and add into that that a pensioner with an income of £50k pays less taxes than a worker on a wage of £50k. It's all a nonsensical mess, just the politicians pandering to get votes rather than looking at what's best for the country.

Assets which will be coming down to you sooner rather than later.

We didn't need ours and our heating has not been left off simply because it has gone.

Where Labour made the mistake (IMO) was setting the means-tested limit for the new payments too low.

Absolutely!

Its not exactly surprising that people are envious of all the benefits their elderly family members enjoy that they themselves are paying for and will never get is it?

I’d be interested to know how she managed to get it. You need quite substantial 24/7 care needs to be able to claim the higher amount.

All those of you who obviously hate your elderly relatives, parents and in laws will be refusing any gifts or inheritance from them in the future, yes?

This is a stupid argument against means testing. But using your logic plenty don't get an inheritance so are they ok to think means testing is fine?

Nail on the head. Todays young workers have to pay for their own pension and don't expect a state pension (or if at all, at an even later age), but are having to also pay taxes for today's pensioners.

Because every single pensioner who doesn't get Pension Credit is this generalised reform voting millionaire? Right. And the younger generation think we're sneery about them?

My dh is retired on a state and tiny private pension and I work for the nhs. We are not totally broke but we are nowhere near the nasty comments we constantly get for being 'old'. The WFA came in very handy and we didn't spend it on our mythical 5th cruise or stash it, remarkably it went on...winter fuel.
A bit of respect would be pleasant

So I should pay for the bus but your wealthy parents shouldn’t? The sense of entitlement is astounding to me.

Just like today’s pensioners paid for the two generations before them. It’s not a 21st century phenomenon. And of course their descendants will in many cases collect a substantial inheritance.

Most of today's pensioners got their pensions at an earlier age, weren't paying for student loans even if they did go to Uni, didn't have such high housing costs, had better public services, etc.

I have absolutely never felt this about the older members of my family….but hey ho.

My MIL was mortally offended when she lost her free TV licence and had to start paying for it again! She had tens of thousands in the bank, saved up monthly as her pensions far exceeded her living costs, but still begrudged having to pay for it! Also always banging on about having to pay a few pounds a month tax on one of her pensions - she was "one of those" who believed she should be exempt from taxes once she was a pensioner! Never one to get in a jibe about how she'd "paid taxes all her life" - heaven knows how - she only worked 2 or 3 years before leaving school and getting married - she was a lifelong SAHM!

There is rather a lot of I don't need, all my friends don't need it so why should others need it, on this thread.

Actually I already inherited because I was made an orphan at 20! I paid inheritance tax and neither of my parents reached pension age.

Most of them didn’t go to university and were at work from 16, 15 or even 14 depending on exactly when they were born. Most of them had living standards which young adults now would consider “developing country” at best but then were entirely the norm.

Availability of public services wasn’t so rosy either. Class sizes of 40-50 were the norm at least in urban areas from the late 50s through to at least the late 60s in very poorly equipped schools often with outside loos and generally non existent facilities. There was a chronic shortage of teachers, especially for early years.

Things change, some for the better, some for the worse. One of the “worse” I see a lot here is younger women sneering at older women and saying they didn’t work because they were merely SAHMs.

Relaxing of income threshold confirmed by PM.

Exactly. The younger generations will not have that pay off, and we need to come to terms with that. Life was easier. That is a measurable fact. And all the posters who are saying that the younger generations will receive inheritances-are you joking? Most pensioners I know are absolutely living it up, add to that potential care costs, any inheritance usually split amongst multiple siblings/grandchildren etc. it is actually rare to receive that much. And not to be morbid but most people receive inheritances later on in life these days-how does that help early adulthood?

And on a related note, what really bothers me about this generational divide more than anything else is that the older generation could afford to fail. Could take risks. Could take their time. I know pensioners who spent vast swathes of their twenties and thirties travelling, volunteering etc. before knuckling down to work, and were still then able to afford to buy a house and get themselves together. In my generation it is actually very rare to be able to do that because it’s been nose to the grindstone since adolescence, and we still will not have the same level of assets. We haven’t been able to have those adventures or take those risks. Because there is absolutely no safety net.

Bus passes were brought in to serve multiple purposes (and remember they can only be used off peak).

Partly it increases the number of older people giving up cars/regular driving (you don’t see the same effect in younger card holders in the UK).
Partly it increases the activity and social connections in older people which has health and other benefits reducing costs to NHS and social services.
Partly it justifies transport routes which are underused outside peak hours and in some areas keeps them alive.

The whole community benefits from all of the above.