FIL teasing daughter - don’t want to chaperone this anymore!

[MamaW05]

I have known my FIL over twenty years. He’s a socially awkward man and in the time I’ve known him has barely managed more than a hi and bye to me. I thought it might be me but since having kids friends have met him at parties etc and independently made the same comments. All fine, we’ve rubbed along fine as needed and in his own way welcomed me into the family.

I have a 4 year old child and in the last year or so I (or we, my partner feels the same!) have found it increasingly hard to deal with his behaviour around her. Whilst he can play nicely with her, brings her stickers etc, he will tease her to the point that she is upset or angry, carry on a bit more, then tell her off (he’s told her to shut up before) or tease her for being upset. She can be sobbing saying ‘stop it’at this point. My husband and I now watch like hawks and are having to step in each time - husband will not have an overall chat with FIL about his behaviour as he says he won’t get it, it’s just who he is, he’ll say it’s just a joke etc.

We had agreed my husband would be around for all visits my FIL is there to nip it in the bud. I have a baby and cannot be there all the time and I’m not willing to leave my elder daughter to be teased by herself. However recently when I thought it was only MIL free she asked to bring FIL as plans had changed so I said yes trying to be gracious. On this visit FIL told my daughter to tease him for his grey hairs, encouraging her to find more and keep going. He then suddenly turned round and retorted ‘well you’ve got ginger in YOUR hair’. She is 4. Luckily she has no idea this was intended as an insult but I’m fuming that this man is so thoughtless and could have set her up with an insecurity when she is currently so confident.

I’m now doubling down on my husband needing to be there for visits, I’m simply not prepared to be the chaperone for his bad behaviour anymore and I am unable to be there all the time whilst caring for the youngest too. I also have very precious little time with my daughters before going back to work, why should we all cop it because a grown man can’t check himself. However as I’m on maternity leave it’s going to very obvious their visits have become minimal and I feel sorry for his mum who looked after our daughter a lot before she went to school and I feel is owed an explanation.

So…
YABU - you and your daughter just need to put up with this behaviour and call him out. You should host them even without DH around. No family is perfect. Use any inappropriate comments as life lessons for your daughter.

YANBU - it’s unacceptable behaviour towards a 4 year old and you shouldn’t have to be the one to manage it or risk your daughter being hurt if you are not able to be in the room the whole time. Have the FIL visit only when husband is also available.

and if YANBU do we just say something? I feel like his mum is owed an explanation for the scarce visits. But I don’t believe this man has the capacity to understand or change so is there no point rocking the boat and we just manage visits accordingly??? I’d have a chat with his mum but I actually think she’d be quite offended and defensive about it all because there is no harm intended…but regardless of intent, I have a sobbing daughter almost every time.

My dad was a teaser. Although he never really teased my brother, it was more something a man did to a girl/woman and then snapped back with not taking a joke.

He started teasing my daughters, I said a few times, no one's enjoying that, he occasionally toned it down. COVID gave us a welcome break then we never made much effort afterwards.

We tried in the early years, it didn't work for us, no regrets.
He died two years ago and I was surprised at how little we all missed him. I think we all felt quite detached in a polite way.

Stop putting your daughter in this position.
It's not teasing, at best it's bullying and tbh it's also grooming a girl to accept any old shit that men hand out.
My ex FIL is the same although not as extreme, my dc won't really talk to him even though his behaviour has improves since his sin told him he needed to stop.

I had a much older brother who used to revel in frightening me when I was about 3.
He would uproot large plants and thrust them at my face.
So I have an aversion to any sub soil gardening.
The image of being face level with roots . All manner of creepy crawlies still moving. Soil dropping from tendrils . . .
Don't even mention the triffids.
My mother once upbraided him for spoiling her garden.
He didn't do it when my father was around.
My brother was highly intelligent but not really interested in soppy things.
I felt stupid as well as powerless for being so soppy.

He is NOT teasing her, he is bullying her. And every single adult around her isn't dealing with it effectively.

If MIL and DH refuse to discuss it with him then it's down to you to go ballistic at it. A four year old should not be in tears.

It is not teasing. It is not banter. It is not fun. It is outright bullying by an abusive, manipulative, controlling man to a young and vulnerable girl. And if not checked she will grow up thinking she is worthless with low boundaries and thinking this is how men/women relationship dynamics work which doesn't bode well.

because no none else seems to be

I don't know if its uniquely british although i doubt it.....please get off the old folks keep it going thing. There are plenty of posts on here about younger folk doing it....you know the "it was just bants" threads.

You're allowing your 4 year old daughter to be affected by a man's behaviour to the point she is sobbing 'Stop it!' What are you teaching her about consent?!

Have you met people? Do you not know that this doesn’t work on the kind of person FIL is?

Thank you the replies. I knew I was right.
Unfortunately correcting it in the moment doesn’t seem to work as we try this and it keeps happening and as a pp said it does nothing for her to unhear a comment which now just appear to be going towards hurtful in their own right. Admittedly I didn’t do this with the hair comment as I was absolutely gobsmacked and DD didn’t get the insult so didn’t want to highlight that it was.
Also appreciate the reply ‘well DD clearly doesn’t find it funny when she’s in tears’. Shuts any excuse of banter and fun right down which is absolutely the response I’m going to get.
Going to address this directly and cut it off as the bullying behaviour it is.

OP, he won't change. You need to seem him less. Or not at all.

If MIL doesn't like it, she can see you alone.

I didn't say it was guaranteed to work on everyone, did I...?
I've met plenty of 'bantersaurus' idiots in my time and trying to head them off in a nice way that plays on things they want (ie for their granddaughter to like them) does sometimes work, which is why I suggested it. Nor do people like being called weird, it induces shame in a lot of people and shames them to stop doing what they are doing. Again, never claimed it was guaranteed to work on everyone but I have seen it work.
And I'm sorry if I've missed what your suggestion for the OP was, I can't see it on this thread. Definitely not claiming my way is the be all and end all, so interested to hear your perspective.

“No teasing or we’ll go home”.

My main concern would be protecting my daughter. I wouldn’t care about hurting his feelings. All contact when I’m there. Grandmother can have contact but does not allow grandfather to have contact. Call them all out about why titre doing this.

He's not teasing, he's bullying.
Bullying a 4 year old.

This. She’s been unfortunate enough to be married to him for a long time. Maybe she can make it penetrate. Even if not, she’ll understand the situation.

There are some adults who just don't know any other way to be with children apart from harassing and tormenting them. It's fucking horrible. Totally agree with all the posters who said that this is bullying and it must not be allowed to continue. Also true that he probably won't change so you'll need to decide what to do OP, but your little girl should not be subjected to this any longer

'I do think this is a uniquely British trait'

Sadly not, plenty of it in my Irish family

Don't get why as a mother protecting a child you haven't said something..Was in a similar situation and actually the family member didn't even realise they were doing it or the effect and they worked super hard to stop and everything was fine by 2nd child

It'll have to be that your daughter only sees them with you or your partner there and you shut it down in the moment, and talk to your child afterwards and explain their grandparent shouldn't have done or said that and why. And empower your child to say stop. I'd even explicitly say to your inlaws that you are teaching your child about consent so if she says stop or doesn't like something such as getting upset then they must stop, and just keep reinforcing it even if they take offence as it's their problem they're offended not yours.

Your DH should step up but seemingly won't. You might have to.

I don’t think I’d trust your DH to do anything when you’re not around.

When you get the inevitable “it’s just a joke!”, then I’d respond “a joke is when both parties are laughing”

No I totally agree with you. I think it’s just interesting the responses.

Your dh is a pathetic weasel of a man. He can’t open his mouth to someone insulting his own child. Please tell him how pathetic he is and then tell your FIL yourself. Socially awkward yet fully confident to act like a creep, call him out on it.

@MamaW05, I would follow @outerspacepotato‘s above advice.

This monster abuses your vulnerable 4 year old daughter, yet she has been exposed to him time and time again. It is disturbing to think of her torment. She must feel so anxious every time he comes into her orbit. This kind of cruelty can have far reaching ramifications.

Was he present when MIL used to keep her? If so, I shudder to think of what he pulled during that time.

Lower the boom and tell him it stops immediately. One more attempt and you and DD go totally NC.

No long explanations trying to save his feelings. He doesn't seem to care about your Childs feelings. He starts, and you say "stop teasing her" repeat repeat and don't take any of his explanations. He may get it in his thick head if it's said enough times

This is correct. Best way to handle it if you aren’t going to a full cut off.