Stop me from losing my shit on FB... (disability/pub/dementia)

[WiddlinDiddlin]

I am really trying to sit on my hands and as I am here, clearly failing.

My Dad is currently in hospital. He is 84 and over the last few weeks has had a few short seizures (falling over, losing control, then coming round and lucid and aware very quickly) recently, two of them in his local pub.

The current situation is that the hospital suspect epilepsy related to dementia, and think he may regain some degree of awareness/lucidity/sense and come out of hospital (though not to his own home I suspect).

For the last two/three weeks, he's been taken to his local by my sister, as he no longer drives. He had a seizure at the pub a couple of weeks back - hospital - sent home, seemed ok... (hasn't driven since about a week before that though, will not drive again, car removed etc).

He was in the pub again on Wednesday, with my sister, and had another seizure. He came round and the ambulance call was cancelled and they advised her to drive him in, so she did.

He then had another seizure at the hospital and this time they've kept him in.

Today my sisters gone back to the pub to catch up with friends of hers and his - he/they have been going there forever, since he was in his 20s and since us kids were 3/4 years old... we've known the owners, and every tenant landlord for decades (to make it clear this is not some random pub).

The current landlord has taken it upon himself to tell my sister 'we're not equipped for people having medical incidents here, don't bring him again' - after overhearing her say that he's not going to be living by himself again, or driving again, or going anywhere alone.

Now I could understand banning him for being a rude, cantankerous old goat, or a bit of an arsehole, he is/was all of those things.

But surely you cannot ban someone from a pub because they might have a medical crisis, whilst supervised by another adult.

Does that mean all disabled people are banned, everyone with an underlying health condition is banned - surely that is not ok.

No one is expecting the pub to look after him, we never have, no more than they look after the people who go there and get falling down drunk, or in floods of tears because their dog/horse/wife died/left them...

I do understand that seeing someone have a fit is pretty traumatic... but if you want to work in hospitality and run a pub, you're going to see humans being humans, surely!

I really am fucking angry - the chances are he is going into a home and at BEST we may be able to take him out for an hour or two, it would be brilliant if he could go somewhere thats part of his routine, where he's familiar with the building and theres people he knows - and now that's been taken away.

I am also fucking furious that the landlord decided to tell my sister this TODAY when he knew she was straight there from the hospital feeling pretty upset about Dad and whats happened - it's pretty much removed the one thing she was clinging to that might be close to 'normal'.

AIBU? Is this actually ok?

As for the other pub goers (given it was 7pm, mid-week)...

They were - a retired GP - two farmers - a builder.

The farmers moved to another bench, one offered to shoot him, the other said 'no... call the hunt'... the GP said this was not strictly necessary for humans.

The builder helped my sister move him from behind the bench and provided a jumper for under his head, whilst the GP rang the ambulance.

The only person flustered was the landlord, and he didn't actually see it this time round, he came out when my Dad was coming round and the 999 call was advising to drive him in rather than wait for an amulance.

The last time someone died in this pub (several years and landlords back)... it was in a corner of the snug and no one noticed til closing time! (It is a VERY dark dingy little pub!) The then landlord was really only upset because that particular customer had arrived by tractor and his tractor was left in the carpark for almost a week, and it wasn't parked as conveniently as it could be!

The thing is though, its not the pubs call to make...its the op and her families decision to take him to the pub and if they feel comfortable and confident they can handle a potential seizure, then thats up to them

Its made worse by the fact that Op's dad is a loyal regular and now, at his most vulnerable the pub is saying he isn't welcome for something that is an illness/disability

I can’t believe anyone expect and complete nob, would he heartless enough to COMPLAIN that someone at a venue has had a seizure.

@WiddlinDiddlin im guessing you’re in the countryside surrounded by farmers?
I suspect Theyre not the ones who’ll get upset if your dad has another ‘incident’ there.

I would ignore the landlord.
Look after your dad and if it fits, go to the pub. Ignore what the landlord says. He can’t discriminate along the lines of illness/disability. If he was commenting directly to your dad, I’d tell him to f* off (in a nicer way maybe)

I bet he continues to serve alcohol to people he knows are alcoholics. A boozer isn't the healthiest environment for them either.

Hmmm I think this is a difficult one. If your dad is a vulnerable adult with dementia and has had multiple recent seizures in the pub then its hardly the place for him. Could the landlord be concerned that your family is making the wrong choices here and not acting in your dads best interests?

Theres a fair number of clientele that have currently no licence for drink driving offences, and who have been 'falling over breaking bones' drunk in there regularly..

Yep its very rural... those without a car licence arrive in various ways - collected by tractor pulled trailer (driven by someone who still has a licence!) - on horseback - on bicycles. Its the sort of place where you wipe your feet on the way out and there are more dogs than humans in there, a reputable and respectable establishment it is not!

If you wrote a sitcom about this place... most people would think you were making it up completely!!

Eh... no. I can categorically state that is not what he is worried about - if it were, he could have spoken to the pubs owner who knows my Dad extremely well (for most of her life!). She lives next door to the pub and is in there most nights, and as it's a rural pub in a very small community everyones business is discussed in depth and at length!

Even if he was worried about that, it’s not the place if the landlord to decide for the OP’s dad and her sister.

Imagine if randomers were starting to tell people what they can or can’t do based on snippets of information!

It’s absolutely pointless having a law which provides protection against various forms of discrimination if you’re going to take a softly softly approach in enforcing it when someone has been openly and directly discriminated against because of a protected characteristic - in this case disability. The pub landlord hasn’t ‘over reacted’ - he’s in a position of authority in a service industry and he doesn’t know the law. That’s not acceptable. And OP is in the best position to ‘get what she wants’ because her dad is the one being discriminated against. The landlord broke the law. It’s a slam dunk.

That’s not his call to make. Her dad may be a vulnerable adult, but he’s still an adult and unless he’s been declared as having lost capacity, he’s capable of making his own decisions, and unless someone in the family has his LPA they are not authorised to act for him - best interests or not.

the pub have been very tactless but they do have a point.

No they don’t. Disabled people shouldn’t be banned from being anywhere just because aspects of their disability are hard to look at. It’s good that your employer has made reasonable adjustment for your disability and your comfort but allowing you some privacy in a work situation is very different from what we’re talking about here.

I’ve been in pubs and seen people who are clearly the worse for drink still being served so forgive me if I don’t believe for a second that this particular piece of work was being altruistic in any way shape or form.

Oh okay well then just talk to the owner and she’ll surely set the landlord straight then.

Nope not unreasonable at all. Iv been in the industry 16+ years. Iv seen it all completely bang out of order and discrimination. Not really one to advocate this but make the public aware. Hope your dad feels better soon. X

But it sounds like you/he like the pub a lot and the owner so it’s only this landlord who you can deal with via owner, no need for FB or legals.

OK, being to some extent devil's advocate here, but speaking as someone whose dad had dementia and dealt with all the stress of it. You haven't been there when this has happened. You don't know, therefore, how upsetting and worrying it has been for anyone else present. The assumption is 'they probably weren't fazed, they were probably fine with helping'. What if they weren't? An ambulance has been called for him, what twice or three times there now? I'd be quite worried about an even worse outcome next time in their position.

Given that you've said they have a high turnover of landlords, the business clearly isn't that appealing or secure. The landlord was tactless, sure, but I would be speaking to the owner before anything else. It sounds like a panicked comment that may not be followed through. Either getting rid of their latest hard-to-find landlord, or getting the place closed down because of the legal consequences of disability discrimination (can you discriminate against someone for a condition nobody, including themselves, knows they have yet?) may not be the outcomes you're after either.

You said your sister may not be ready to accept your dad's condition yet. I suspect that as his main carer, and the person who was saying he'll never go home and never go out alone again, she has the best grasp of likely outcomes here. Sorry to be blunt but I wouldn't be focused on the rights and wrongs of getting your dad back to his local. Getting him properly treated and into a safe living environment will be more than enough for now.

I actually didn't come here to ask if anyone thinks my Dad is going home or not, or whether they think going to a pub is good for him (actually, DS thinks he is, I am more doubtful. The 'never going out alone' thing is not a debate - he lives a mile from the nearest shop, can't walk and now can't drive.) - I am very aware (having been through similar with my other parent) that much can change and may change very quickly and all this may be entirely moot.

I posted to see if I was being unreasonable in being pissed off at the basic idea of someone not being welcome because they may have a medical episode, and to stop myself rage-posting on FB, tagging the pub in the process.

FYI - Ambulances to pub to date = 1. Fits at pub 2. Driven to hospital the second time by DS.

Anyway I came back to update and by all accounts, pub rapidly emptied and went v quiet for a few hours after DS stormed out (ie, the old guard fucked off to the pub she'd gone to to calm down to find out why she'd shouted and stormed out - the young uns didn't show up til much later).

LL has been made very aware that some of the heaviest drinkers - and therefore spenders - consider my Dad to be a part of the furniture there and that if he can return safely, he will do so, and several of them pointed out they too have underlying medical conditions and they're also not keen on the idea that they'd be similarly unwelcome.

Could we please call it a seizure and not a fit, people with epilepsy do not like the word “fit”

As someone with epilepsy also the drinking won't help him it's given me seizures before

Thanks for the update. Glad he's got the support of the regulars.

You were entirely reasonable to be so angry but I'd wait till you can summon your usual eloquent self and then let the licence holder know exactly what happened.

I'm now late starting my morning because I've gone down a rabbit hole of 'how would I go about changing this unwanted behaviour in a dog ', not very helpful but it did feel better than a rant on Facebook.

In all honesty I don't think it's fair on anyone involved to be taking him to the pub.

Maybe the alcohol is bringing on the seizures and actually your dad is his responsibility if your dad is taken poorly on his premises.
I do feel for you, could your dad have a non alcoholic beer?

Why? They’re not all the same
What was I mean to do as a child having seizures that lived in a pub? It was nothing to do with where I lived

If he keeps having fits then I don’t blame the landlord. It’s irresponsible to let him keep coming in and having fits

I think this bit of info makes all the difference. You need to talk to the owner. Have a quiet, reasonable conversation with her. Mentioning disability discrimination or whatever else people here have suggested.

The landlord needs educating about what he can and cannot do.