Would you rather your children were clever or kind/ polite?

[Imcomingovertoyourplace]

I know there will be people on here who say ‘oh well my child is both!’
But I’ve noticed a bit of a tendency for the kind kids to not be top of the class, and vice versa.
I have one of each. One is gorgeous and lovely and polite, but she finds school such a struggle and she doesn’t always get friendship stuff.
My other younger child will always get their needs met somehow, but can be rude to friends and adults, even if I correct them. He is so popular though, everyone admires him. He’s also very bright. I’m more like my first child. Their dad is much more like our second.
I worry so much for my daughter now she is a teen. Her insecurities and troubles connecting to others seem to impact on her academic progress. My son will probably be fine, but I wince when he talks to adults, and I’m sure they judge me.

Clever. Kind gets you men in women’s loos.

Clever- then they know when to be kind and polite.

Kind.

It’s a false opposition. There's no correlation of any kind between kindness and cleverness, and anyone who thinks there is seems to me to be projecting all over the place, and should probably think about why.

As Taylor Swift said:

Never be so kind, you forget to be clever
Never be so clever, you forget to be kind

Clever - kindness can be taught!

And I agree that there is no correlation

Daft question. No-one is just one or the other.

I don't think you can put how your children are down to simply one being kind and one being smart though. I have one of each too but they sound nothing like your two. Both I think will have struggles but both have areas where they excel.

My smart one is not popular and has struggled with friendships in the past. The move to secondary school was really difficult but she has had a lot of support from school and now has a nice little friendship group. She is ASD and just doesn't see saying what she thinks in a blunt fashion is rude. I try and explain. I hope she figures it out as she gets older. She also seems to be largely 'no shits given' about most things. Which is great in many ways. But she just doesn't read people and their reactions. Sometimes some shits should be given. The subjects she is good at she excels in. The ones she doesn't are a constant struggle!

The kind one is funny, friendly and popular. She seems to have all the emotional awareness for the whole family. She is a complete charmer. Secondary school has been a breeze. Hasn't phased her at all. But just doesn't really care about learning and never really puts much effort of focus into things. She is also fairly no shits given in many ways - doesn't feel the need to follow the crowd; if kids are unkind she just takes note that they aren't nice and keeps out their way. I suppose there is potential for this to change but we'll see.

Most people I can put generally into two camps ‘look after number 1’ or ‘put others first’. I think all of us are on this spectrum of kindness vs selfish. I tend to notice that those more on the ‘look after number 1’ end tend to be cleverer or at least more successful.

@meganorksyour DCs both sound great.

Clever all the way. Life is much, much easier if you're clever, confident and personable.

Clever, you can learn to be kind and polite even if it doesn't come naturally.

If they were clever they would also know to be kind and polite

I have four DC. DC1 is smart but tactless, DC2 is smart and kind, DC3 not top of the class due to additional needs but appears to have a very high EQ - very kind and compassionate towards others and DC4 is smart and tactless like the eldest! Got a real mix here.

But I’ve noticed a bit of a tendency for the kind kids to not be top of the class, and vice versa.

Not something I've observed in 30 years of teaching tbh. If anything it is often the less bright students who have more friendship issues and are absolutely horrible to each other, probably because they often have less good 'soft skills' and emotional intelligence. However, there are lots of clever and not so clever kids who are kind and lots who are not.

I'd rather they were intelligent. Kindness can be learned.

Clever as you can hopefully teach empathy etc.

I actually think this nails it.

Are they unkind or cruel if clever?
Are they thick as mince if kind and polite?

I see clever as innate, kindness and certainly manners as learnt. Surely any child can be taught good manners and consideration for others - even if this requires more parental effort and learning for some children than others?

I would say the reverse clever people tend to be polite and helpful, the rude and unhelpful tend to be not very smart either. Kindness is a bit difficult to judge as a trait it's what people do that matters, if they act in a friendly helpful way that may indicate kindness.

But ‘putting others first’ is not necessarily an indication of actual kindness!

Putting others first can be a sign of poor self-esteem, a lack of boundaries,
people-pleasing. A properly kind person will make sure their own needs are fulfilled and give from a filled cup in situations which aren’t exploitative or damaging. But someone who always automatically prioritises others above themselves — that’s likely to be a person with a healthy sense of self. That’s a coping mechanism to compensate for something, or a desperate attempt to buy liking with services.

I think you’re projecting. You say the daughter you worry about is like you. If she’s insecure, surely that’s far more likely to be impeding her friendships?

Selfishness leading to material success is hardly a surprise. That’s very different from being clever.

Kind and polite, 100%

Clever, especially if they’re girls