When did parents stop being the boss

[Justsayno123]

Completely aware that I sound like some 'outraged from Surbiton' letter into the Daily Fail... But when did parents stop being in charge of their kids?!

I live in a nice area and socialise with a lot of parents. These are well educated people who have achieved some degree of success in their lives and live in relative comfort. No SEN and a lot of the time the children are onlies. So many conversations recently where the other parent says 'well, I just can't make them' or 'I have to give them that choice' or 'I've given up on that one'. Examples of these things include phone usage, bedtime, mealtimes, attending events, or just essentially anything the child doesn't enthusiastically agree to do. I normally just smile politely but I want to scream at them to just take charge! You can make decisions to stop your child doing something which is not in their best interest. You have a duty to try to inculcate healthy ways of living - for their mental and physical health. That is literally your purpose as a parent. Urgh, I literally despair for the future.

It’s been a gradual change, but is strongly associated with when phones became appealing, and available 24/7 with loads of content. It’s just such a strong driver for so many children, it’s an uphill struggle getting them to do other things when mobile devices are such a pull.
Also ties in with parents using less physical punishment for children, and generally being nicer to children. So children are less fearful of their parents, and authority. This is a good thing, but makes it harder for many to assert authority than it would have been in previous generations.

I think it happened when we started seeing children as human beings in their own right and now little robots to be controlled and forced to act how their parents wish for an easy life. Probably around the time most parents stopped hurting and screaming at kids as the first line of parenting

I am a huge believer that you can be friendly with your children and strict. I have a teen and a baby and I am strict enough my my eldest, and have been and there are boundaries she does not cross - I’ve got that “mum look” nailed down (that look you give in public that reminds them that you are still the boss when they are acting out) but at the same time we have amazing conversations, outings and I listen to her wants, and accommodate the ones I can within reason.

You can do both, but somewhere down the line we forgot this. To the point where many children have little respect for their parents and have zero boundaries.

It’s sad. Yes children and young people are human beings, and should be treated like one , but they are not adults and their brains are still developing and we as adults have a role to play in making sure we are giving them the tools to be those adults. I think things went downhill when adults lost sight of the fact that children will grow up and become contributors to society, and to be a contributor you have to learn specific tools and ways of being - this generation of parenting treat children as if they will be children forever.

Absolutely! But the problem with the op is 'when did parents stop being the bsos' well when we realised blind obedience isn't the be all and end all. And it's not about 'friendly but strict' we have very strong boundaries in our house but the kids are allows to question things, allowed to have feelings about things and voice those. They are as important as random adults out and about. So if my 3 yr old is exhausted and needs a seat on a bus, she doesn't have to give up that seat to an able bodied adult for instance. Children are not adults, they deserve more grace for behaviours and emotions than adults do.

You can't expect age inappropriate behaviour and in the past parents beat said behaviour into kids.

I think:
a) parents have always picked their battles to some degree
b) today’s parents are responding to their parents being authoritarian for no reason over petty things

Utter rubbish! I'm in my sixties and my parents, and my friends' parents, didn't behave the way you mention. Pretty sure my parents would have agreed with me about their own parents.

As usual, the younger generations think they are the only ones to get it right - and yet look at all the MH issues young people have these days. There have always been good parents and bad parents, and there always will be.

Well I have 3 (almost) adult dc. I was probably pretty strict with them in the early years. But a they became teenagers I relaxed and treated them more as mini adults. Worked well for us. I felt they needed boundaries and rules when young,but the ability to have more independence as soon to be adults.

What nonsense! My parents didn’t treat us like that and I didn’t treat mine like that . There was always respect and boundaries and that’s how it should be. My grandchildren run circles around their parents and there’s always chaos ! Cant say its for the better !

Are you saying you never shouted or hit? What punishment did you use when your children misbehaved? You, personally, how did you manage things? And I'm 42 so have experience of parents in their 60s

The move away from physical discipline has led to this

BUT - not because physical discipline was good. It was just easy.

The reality of parenting, teaching, and any form of discipline is that doing it in a reasoned way is challenging. And a lot of people just can't or won't. It takes far far more consistency, thought, patience, time, effort, knowledge etc. to maintain authority through reason/compassion, rather than fear.

When done well, it is 100% the best approach. Modern non-physical authority IS better than traditional fear-based authority.

But..

Fear based authority is better than no authority.

And that is the problem. If a parent or teacher can't use fear... but isn't willing or capable of creating reasoned authority, then you end up with out of control children in families + classes.

Putting it into school contexts.

Great inspirational reason based authority > Physical fear based authority > No authority.

The problem that a lot of "older" generation do correctly identify this problem, but then conclude that we need to go back to Physical discipline.

When in reality we need far more training, time, support for parents to learn how to parent, rather than just presume everyone is capable of automatically creating reasoned authority with children. (And equally far more training, support, and resources for teachers, smaller classes, more time to prepare etc.)

I think key it's parents who want to be their children's friend rather than their parent.

We have had this conversation! We have always been very much in charge and never put up with our children being rude to us.

We are known in our friendship circle for being “lucky” that our teens are lovely and polite to us. Funny that.

Depends what age they are. When they are teenagers you pick your battles.

My parents were born in the 1930s, had me in the 1970s and were not authoritarian with me. Didn't need to be. Then as a teenager I had nothing to rebel against and I could tell my mum anything. We've tried to do similar with DDs, and while of course they have boundaries, we've not had huge battles.

I remember people laughing at me in the 2000s for negotating with DD1 in particular how many biscuits she could have or how many forkfuls of food as a toddler, or over what she would wear. But that's my parenting style, with my child - I can't do anything else and she can't be anything else. DD2 is a different personality, more laid back, but required a different approach - you adapt, as a thoughtful and involved parent.

We have a fantastic relationship, all of us and they are lovely young women, so I can't see that we went particularly wrong. Of course you always make mistakes, we're human.

You lay the ground work from the start. Good luck if you haven’t established a good mutually respectful parent in charge whilst listening to child dynamic by the time they hit teen years. It’s too late by then.

@Barnbrack Absolutely this. We have strong boundaries and some things are absolutely non-negotiable but I will always allow my DC to question things - even from other adults and to share their feelings etc

There were and are plenty of mental health issues in my generation (X). People buried them and "dealt with it" (i.e. not dealing with it and making it worse) with drink and drugs, as a lot of boomers and silent generation did too.

I don't find at all that younger generations think they are the only ones to get it right. Quite the opposite, they are always being roundly criticised by older people thinking they got it right and the younger generation have it all wrong. As per the premise of this thread, and several a day popping up all over Mumsnet and elsewhere. It's like whackamole.

Lack of discipline as kids learn quickly they can get away with stuff. So they do. Which doesnt bode well for doing what they are asked in the school or workplace in later life.

Lack of parenting as it’s easier to be the kids friend.
My neighbours was pleading with her four year old in the street to “come in now it’s time for bed, it’s 10pm, please, mummy’s tired, please darling”. That shouldn’t have happened. Dont negotiate with a four year old. Get him/her told. The kid’s growing up now and is in secondary school and is a total brat who has no respect and doesnt do as she’s told at home. Am I surprised no.

And will I be surprised if she parents how she was patented no. Parenting standards will continue to drop in successive generations as it’s hard as nobody sees what goes on to step in and sort it so the poor parenting continues and society changes.

I recently read a book (Hold on to your kids, by Neufeld and Mate) which purported to answer this question.

The answer is: when the kids started looking more to their peers than to us adults for acceptance.

This, absolutely this. And children need boundaries and lots of love. Boundaries help children to feel secure and if they feel secure they'll be happier and more able to manage challenges and behave in a more socially acceptable way.

Great response

Someone on here recommended The Explosive Child so I listened on Audible.

Basically in terms of discipline there are 3 responses for parents:

1. Allow the behaviour - say a toddler wants to run around the living room playing, no inherent dangers, no risks.
2. Reason with the child the behaviour is unacceptable - say toddler wants to run around the living room holding a pair of scissors.
3. Stop the behaviour as it is dangerous - say toddler tries to pick up a steaming hot cup of tea.

I fundamentally believe in teachable moments as a parent but I would never allow my kids to hurt themselves to learn that lesson.

My toddler is 4 and largely responds well to this type of parenting.

It's not for every child and I'm sure some bystanders have their opinions but who cares.

I read a quote once that said "of course you think you could parent that screaming child in the restaurant better. That's how the human race survives, everyone thinking they could be a better parent. Until you find out no you bloody well can't".

I was one such person and now I know it's not that simple.

There is a very good book, called ‘The war for children’s minds’ that addresses this. The difference between authoritarian and authoritative parenting. I based my parenting style on this book. I grew up in an abusive environment and that’s all I knew, but I also knew I didn’t want that for my own DD.

They always look to their peers for acceptance, whatever you do. It's part of growing up. Ultimately, they usually choose one of their peers as a romantic partner (though it's not obligatory) and have their own family/household (whether that's made up of people, pets, etc) and that choice becomes more important than the parental relationship.

My opinion is when both parents had to work full time outside the home often long hours with a commute and kids were put into creches all day every day. Then the guilt of doing that parents spoiled their child, didn't want to upset them so they started easing off on parenting. Some kids spend more time in creches then they do with the parents.
Parents then didn't know how to parent, they want to be their kids "bestie's" and let them do what they wanted. Then those kids became parents and because they knew no better the cycle continued but got a bit worse.

They aren't continuing to drop, that's your opinion. What boundaries did kids have in the 1960s and 1970s when they were out from dawn till dusk and the parents didn't know where they were? There were so many neglectful parents that a huge series of public information films had to be made about dangers that should have been absolutely bleeding obvious if parents remotely gave a shit and actually wanted to spend time with their kids.