When did parents stop being the boss

[Justsayno123]

Completely aware that I sound like some 'outraged from Surbiton' letter into the Daily Fail... But when did parents stop being in charge of their kids?!

I live in a nice area and socialise with a lot of parents. These are well educated people who have achieved some degree of success in their lives and live in relative comfort. No SEN and a lot of the time the children are onlies. So many conversations recently where the other parent says 'well, I just can't make them' or 'I have to give them that choice' or 'I've given up on that one'. Examples of these things include phone usage, bedtime, mealtimes, attending events, or just essentially anything the child doesn't enthusiastically agree to do. I normally just smile politely but I want to scream at them to just take charge! You can make decisions to stop your child doing something which is not in their best interest. You have a duty to try to inculcate healthy ways of living - for their mental and physical health. That is literally your purpose as a parent. Urgh, I literally despair for the future.

The only children I work with have pretty firm boundaries. Also a middle class area.

I think, as a society, we’ve moved on from, what would now be seen as, abusive kinds discipline, and we’ve completely changed the standards of behaviour we expect from adults. We’re literally operating without a playbook, with no idea of what we’re trying to achieve or how to set about it.

There’s also a tendency to confuse respect for personhood with a belief that everyone thinks like me. So with the best of intentions, people treat children like miniature adults, without regard for their developmental stages or needs.

Currently the loudest cultural influence is from
psychologists - not promoting wider education about developmental ages and stages, but warning of the (lucrative) dangers of mental health.

We’re living in fear of anxiety and mental health problems. Which is probably quite similar to how our ancestors lived in fear of sin and eternal damnation. We’ve just switched out church authority for psychology.

And psychologists aren’t bound by a Hippocratic oath, and while at the highest levels there are efforts to promote evidence based therapies, it isn’t a well regulated profession. Some therapies are ineffective, or actually damaging, but that’s not widely understood. Yet most people think of therapy as a the solution to all mental issues, like a course of antibiotics for the mind.

The pharmaceutical industry plays a role too - the idea to medicalise ”generalised anxiety” was brilliant. We can no longer distinguish ordinary stress, and existential angst from psychiatric disorders and we’ve pathologised normal human experience, because it makes money to do so.

Because it's not like they need to learn to respect authority is it?

I’m not a man, and it’s mostly mothers I see letting little horrors be rude to them. If women aren’t going to enforce acceptable standards of behaviour when they actually can do so then why are we surprised when they are unpleasant adults?

You will note that nowhere do I say that the fathers are not responsible.

A lot of people have talked about children having their electronic devices.

I think a lot of the problems are that parents are also addicted to their electronic devices, and they don't spend enough time engaging with their children. Restless children become a nuisance who then have to act up to get their parents' attention.

We were just sent out to play for hours on end and used our imaginations.

lots of women (possibly people) are people pleasers and as a result often end up really miserable, making bad marriage choices for example as they always see the good in people. People pleasing often comes from being a child of authoritarian parents, who you are always trying to please but never seem to do enough.

I expect parents who grew up like that, don’t want that for their children. They actually want them to say ‘no’.

there’s a balance to be had between the authoritarian style of the 60s and the laissez faire style of today.

I think a lot of the children you’re complaining about, are going to make absolutely awesome adults because theyve learnt to say no.

And yet this better “understanding” of parenting has resulted in record behavioural and mental health issues.

I’d be interested to hear what current secondary teachers think to that.

does anyone have a link to the evidence to say that the mental health problems of teenagers today are a result of less authoritative parenting and not of social media, phones, covid, increased ND, increased processed food etc?

Teenagers are (usually) only difficult when you haven’t set boundaries earlier on. We are gliding through the teen years, as my parents did with me, because we have set firm boundaries. It will be a cold day in hell before a child of mine swears at me or slams a door in my face, and if they try it, it’ll only be the once. This behaviour is normalised these days. It is NOT normal, and it is NOT acceptable.

Ironically, I am one. It’s a bloody nightmare. I am on both sides of this. I’m finding teaching very very hard now, so much harder than 20 years ago; but have also raised a very feminist awesome teenager who will absolutely stand her ground and will be an awesome adult.

Phones are the new opiate of the masses and look how they re-wire young people!

That’s really interesting. I’m not one (governor is as close as I get, so I understand the problems exist but don’t deal with first hand) and not respecting authority is a common theme I hear about.

We may be talking about different things, becuse there’s no way either of my girls would swear at me or slam doors, but one of them does say no sometimes.
So my own experience of two teenage girls is it’s nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with ND or NT. I set boundaries when they were younger, and I have one dd 15 (NT) who is as good as gold. You would give me star parent of the year if you met her. My other ND child (16) absolutely will not respond to me being authoritative. It would not achieve anything positive at all. She is thriving, but in her own way.

Hmmm.. I know a parent who won’t talk to her teenage son (nor will her DP) about consent, even though he is dating, because ‘he’d be too embarrassed’. Who won’t tell her other (also teenage) son that he shouldn’t take photos on his phone at school without permission because ‘he’s just messing about and doesn’t mean any harm!’

But of course, we mustn’t impose ourselves in our children’s lives, as we might infringe their rights as human beings…. 🤷🏼‍♀️

A lot of parents don’t want to be firm and won’t follow through on consequences. That means the kids can do what they want and don’t respect authority.

I do think you cannot afford to be laissez-faire nowadays with all of the distractions there are available. We spend way more time money and effort facilitating our older two's sport and training than many parents would be prepared to, precisely because it is wholesome and great for them mentally and physically. The difference between them and some of their friends who are 'allowed' a far more relaxed time of it is huge.

As a result, the youngest does get more screentime than some of his peers as we wait, drive etc...but he also spends a lot of evenings on the beach swimming while we wait, and sees that teenagers are busy and active etc. His expectation is that once he gets to around 12, he will be following in their footsteps.

Our middle only started last year, when we noticed that he was starting to 'red flag' a little in our estimation. So we didn't say anything directly, but worked hard pushing him into/towards some better options.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/childhood-narcissism/202410/how-permissive-parents-hurt-their-children

🙌🏼

Agree with this.

TL;DR

We have stopped hitting our children (great) but unfortunately haven't quite mastered the alternative way of doing things.

Why do you think it's a good thing?

Who benefits from having badly behaved children?

Children are not adults. They are in a process of learning and growing. Part of their learning should be about kindness, graciousness and generosity. I'm talking about children and their parents giving up seats on public transport for the elderly and infirm. This often doesnt happen nowadays. A three year old should be taken onto a parent's knee if possible, if someone else requires a seat. Adults should model kind behaviour to their children.

Teenagers are (usually) only difficult when you haven’t set boundaries earlier on. We are gliding through the teen years, as my parents did with me, because we have set firm boundaries. It will be a cold day in hell before a child of mine swears at me or slams a door in my face, and if they try it, it’ll only be the once. This behaviour is normalised these days. It is NOT normal, and it is NOT acceptable.

I think teen years can be difficult for parents because developmentally teenagers need to be able to flex their muscles a bit - it’s part of them becoming their own person. So yes they’re going to push boundaries, for some parents that means loosening all the boundaries rather than having a few absolutes.

My two are 12 and 14, they know the bottom lines around respect and aggression - lots of things are up for discussion, but I do mean discussion not screaming, shouting tantrums. As it stands so far we have good, open relationships and they’re growing into lovely teenagers, I have no doubt we’ll have our challenges particularly as both kids have complex needs but they know there are lines they don’t cross.

Children do not pay the bills. They do not have adult agency or adult responsibilities, and should not be treated as if they do have those things.

Children are not adults, they deserve more grace for behaviours and emotions than adults do.

They do, absolutely but they also need support, guidance and correction - many parents are good at being gracious and much less able to do the latter.