When did parents stop being the boss

[Justsayno123]

Completely aware that I sound like some 'outraged from Surbiton' letter into the Daily Fail... But when did parents stop being in charge of their kids?!

I live in a nice area and socialise with a lot of parents. These are well educated people who have achieved some degree of success in their lives and live in relative comfort. No SEN and a lot of the time the children are onlies. So many conversations recently where the other parent says 'well, I just can't make them' or 'I have to give them that choice' or 'I've given up on that one'. Examples of these things include phone usage, bedtime, mealtimes, attending events, or just essentially anything the child doesn't enthusiastically agree to do. I normally just smile politely but I want to scream at them to just take charge! You can make decisions to stop your child doing something which is not in their best interest. You have a duty to try to inculcate healthy ways of living - for their mental and physical health. That is literally your purpose as a parent. Urgh, I literally despair for the future.

Just as a side point - the argument that "It depends on the Child because I had 2+ children and they are different..." doesn't really work for me.

Yes, all Children are somewhat different, but it is equally true that you absolutely did not parent your two children the same. No parent does. It is impossible for two children to have identical experiences, simply because:

1, The parents change and learn and develop a lot through having the first Child, so they treat the second one differently.
2, Obviously the second child has a huge extra influencing factor (the older sibling) They are exposed to more mature things early, have to deal with a whole raft of different experiences and situations that the first child never did.
And so on, and so on.

So no, having two children who are different, does not mean that differences in their behavior is entirely genetic or because of who they are. It is perfectly possible that it comes from unintended differences in the environment they grew up in, including parenting styles.

I think it's about balance. Obviously, parents have responsibilities to guide their children in the right direction and keep them safe etc, and sometimes that might involve making decisions that the child doesn't like. However, in my experience, you also need to pick your battles wisely and work with your child to support them to make sensible decisions, rather than simply laying down the law because you're "the boss".

Exactly- I meant I would have given my child my seat and stood myself so my child sat, not that we both stood.

I think the issues we’re seeing in secondary schools now is pretty much entirely down to the breakdown of that role in parenting. Children aren’t raised to respect authority, and it’s causing chaos in (many) classrooms.

I see the way some children act, even children of family members and friends I like, and I despair at how bad attitude is handled, society doesn’t stand a chance. I am all for emotional resilience, but order should not be underestimated.

And I get asked ALL THE TIME “how are your children so polite?” because they’ve been raised that way, and when they’ve made mistakes, it’s been picked up on. Early.

Well in our house it seems to have been in the 5 years between my DD’s being born and my DSS’s. I was shocked when I met them on how much they ruled the roost and how neither my now Dh or their Mum ever pulled them up on it.
And yes, the phones are a huge huge issue.
it’s been an interesting time as our two families mixed as DH began to realise he could actually say no to them and it was made clear to them, as gently as possible, that they did actually have to do things that might not be instantly appealing or entertaining for them from time to time-such as attending family parties where they may not be the centre of attention or whatever. It’s a work in progress and not an easy thing for any of us but it has to be done as otherwise how will they end up?

Mostly yes, except for the teacher part. Badly behaved kids in schools are like that because of their parents.

Can I ask why people think phones are a factor? I’m just interested as I can’t say I’ve noticed any change in attitude or defiance since eldest has had a phone (though we do have quite strict rules with it).

Which is also what Meant

I agree with others that parents wanting to be their child’s best friend can be an issue.
They don’t want to discipline their child in case they lose their “lil bestie”. I don’t know about anyone else but I’m able to tell my best friends when they’re acting like a dick and vice versa.
It is possible to be your child’s “friend”, yet still have firm parenting in place, you just have to set that boundary early.

I would describe my relationship with my mum as “best friend” like. She was so laid back but also firm when she needed to be. I (and my friends) could go to her for absolutely anything.
We had/have so much fun together and it does feel like two teenagers hanging out when we’re together. However, I always respected and listened to her and other adults, had clear boundaries, was polite, knew how to behave in public, knew how to behave at school, and knew that when I had behaved like a little shit l that I had to apologise for my behaviour and actually act on that apology, not use empty words.

Is there not any point that you just say no and expect them to follow it?

Here’s a situation I had at work recently. Mum brings child with her to her appointment. I’m treating mum, child starts roaming around the room. This is a medical room with cupboards and equipment and similar. Child starts opening cupboards and touching the stuff inside. Mum stays silent. I tell child please do not open the cupboards and touch any of the stuff. They ask why. I say because it’s important and expensive and in a special way so we know where things are. They reply they will put it back after. I say no please just close the cupboard and sit down. They say but they aren’t making a mess so why can’t they just look at things. I say I need them to sit down now so I can continue with their mum’s appointment. They reply again that why do they need to sit down. That’s it’s boring. Their mum lets them and they don’t want to. I say to mum that I need them to sit down or I’ll end the appointment. Mum says well she can’t force the child to sit down if they don’t want to as it isn’t fair on the child and really what harm is it for them to just look and see what is in the cupboard. Child looks very smug. I tell mum that I can’t focus on the appointment if I’m constantly looking to see what the child may or may not be touching. Mum tells child that if they sit down she’ll buy them sweets after. Child agrees but within 30 seconds is up again touching things. I end up ending the appointment. Mum makes a complaint. I end up not getting paid for that time.

Surely a medical appointment is not the time to happily allow your child to question things they are asked to do? And not the time to share their feelings that they feel bored and use it as a reason to rummage through medical cupboards.

I read a thread on here recently where a mother said her 10 year old would not allow anyone except two people to visit their home, unbelievable.

There are different ways of inculcating children with healthy ways of living. I don't use the same way every time. I like the idea of my children finding their own way, making mistakes and learning from them. That is true learning, rather than just doing something because your parents force you to. Also, I'm a good role model so provide a positive example without ramming "my ways" down their throats. It's a longer game.
I also dislike this idea of teaching your kids everything before they leave home- how to cook properly, do the laundry, apply for a mortgage bla bla bla. The fun and sense of achievement i have from my 20s was learning life FOR MYSELF, discovering life FOR MYSELF, discovering I was resourceful and resilient- not cos mummy and daddy forced me to do things or told me how to do everything.
I liked living my own life, finding my own way. I'll guide my kids to a healthy life. On occasions, and especially when they were young, I'd put my foot down and be authoritarian, but mostly I want them to live their own life, not the one I tell them to.
Theyre now young adults. Polite, considerate, healthy.

We have always double up or stood, especially for seniors. I remember doing so as a teen on the tube, we always sat on each others’ knees.

And when I was heavily pregnant and standing on the tube (not for long so I wasn’t bothered) some teenage boys who were standing had a right old go at the passengers sitting and not offering me a seat. Properly brought up gentlemen, they were 😀.

God, how utterly utterly tedious. A badly brought up brat messing around in a surgery of all places. Because Mum can’t say no, must keg her little angel explore everything.

”Sir down NOW” was all that was needed. No debate, no argument, no negotiation.

Same reason you see loads of untrained dogs without recall.. people don't do the training, for whatever reason. Probably because parenting is boring, tedious, repetitive hard work.. As is dog training!

How old are your children op?

because if they’re under 12, I would caution you of being too smug.

parenting children under 12 is easy, laying boundaries is easy, it changes when they are physically strong enough (not that either of you whack each other, I don’t mean that, but when you both have the knowledge that they could) and independent enough to make their own decisions and there’s not a thing you can do about it, other than hope they make the right ones.

DH and his siblings plus partners would have made a cracking parenting documentary. Now the two kids per family are late teens, the experiment is pretty complete.
DH & I - how to talk so kids listen and listen so kids talk type approach along with Biddulph's raising girls. DH worked full time, I did projects so would completely disappear then be back full-time. My kids, obviously turned out the best.
SIL plus her DH - both worked full time, went for the easy ride, lots of childcare, lots of dumping off on grandparents. Lots of structured holidays with kids clubs, earnt high, burnt out, spent high. Kids are a ADHD mess caught very late, lots of frustration. And a very anxious, eating disorder, sibling.
BIl with extreme attachment parenting partner - with out a strong parenting rolemode, the partner ended up going the attachment route, got totally burnt out. BIL failed to change his behaviour from pre kids so was of no support. They broke up. School refused on pip for mental health and an emotional blank sibling.

So all parenting in the same generation, all crazy different approaches. Mumsnet plus reflecting on my childhood got me where I am today. I'd say I was the boss then unlike my parents, I've mentored and shifted to senior colleague.

Almost 33 years ago I visited family in North America with my eldest son. I came home really amazed at the style of parenting there were the child was to be allowed make decisions for itself and not be reprimanded as it stunts growth. This included on one famous occasion the 4 year old child having 3 bars of chocolate back to back and then vomiting - it'll teach the child the lesson to pace themselves said the mom. It didn't and I don't think it ever would or could. Myself and dh still often talk about this time as what we saw as the turning point in how children were reared and start of today's problems - without being an advocate for child abuse and smacking, I do believe society has majorily lost the plot on effective parenting and a lot of children are growing up having never never been told no to treats, no to excessive TV or screens, about how to treat others kindly, you are not #1, etc. so to answer the original question, I'd say around 1992

When they stopped parenting.

Goodness, this is awful! I can’t believe they didn’t pay you, that is shocking. You were totally in the right.

This is just typical of a lot of parents these days sadly.

"Because I said so" really needs to make a sharp comeback. No bribing, begging or bargaining with a child FFS.

I totally agree.

I think we understand a lot more about child development now, so parenting has changed, because most of us want the best for our kids. Authoritarian parenting isn't really the best approach.

I think it is all context as well. There are some things we let slide in our kids because in the broader context of how our family works it is fine. Eldest doesn't have a bedtime at 14 because she is inherently sensible, takes good care of herself etc. We don't regulate her 'screentime' because she is busy and active and leads a full life. Likewise the 13 year old, he still has a bedtime because he needs more sleep but we don't control his screentime or what he eats.

The youngest is 7 and we have a lot more control obviously, but even then we say yes to a lot more than some parents might.