Mayflower primary school - nappy changing facilities for school aged children

[2011j]

AIBU to think this shouldn't be necessary?

Not including those with sen, children should be potty trained before starting school - AIBU?

In the past SEN children were educated (or not) away from mainstream schools.

I guess it's true that most nurseries won't be using the no pants approach. I could not see the point either, it didn't seem to aid understanding anywhere near as much as the potty close at hand.

I think that's a possibility. But people are saying the issue might be caused by undiagnosed needs at reception. If undiagnosed, the the children wouldn't have been in special school anyway

I dare say, but IMO it’s largely down to CBA parenting and the availability of disposable nappies and pull-ups.

There is a difference between children with SEND and those without.

Nursery and schools of course make provision, willingly, for children who require additional support.

My DGS, I would expect school staff to be not so willing with my ‘soon to be, no needs at all, nearly 5 when he starts school’, DGS. He isn't toilet trained because my DD ‘gentle parents’. He will go to the toilet when he has decided he is ready. She doesn't build a routine, doesn't encourage when he says no. He looks ridiculous running round the park, big lad, full communication, with a large smelly, sudden, baggy nappy.

Holidays are a great time to toilet train, running round our garden, no nappy or just a pair of sodden pants! They soon learn with parental help.

My son’s school is currently running an adult literacy course, aimed specifically at parents of the school’s students. It’s to support those whose children have now surpassed the adult’s reading ability. There are 3 children in my son’s class who have a parent attending. These are very average 7 year olds.

Something went wrong a long time ago, those adults couldn’t read the book either. They need Sure Start.

For those saying the issue is that we need a different approach to non SEND kids, the problem is that it’s impossible to tell at age 3-5 whether it’s inconsistent parenting, a physical issue or SEND.

Because a lot of parents nowadays are lazy feckers? Sorry but it's true - you only have to go out to a restaurant or cafe and see parents shoving their dc's in front of an iPad whilst they scroll on their phones.

I have 4 dc's and all needed toilet training before they could go to playgroup - it was a pain in the bum but there was no question of not doing it, it's just one of those things you have to do to help your child's development.

Standards are lower in general, and people are more selfish and entitled 🤷‍♀️

I am reading all the smug responses from mums whose kids were perfectly potty trained at 2 and it’s making me rage and despair

and as for the person calling me lazy , well you can fuck right off!

How can I be lazy scraping shit out of my 5.5 year olds child arse up to 5 times a day in a bad day and at least twice a day in a good day

it’s costing me a fortune in wipes, washing , pants , nappies at night and trousers and every-time he does it it breaks my heart and stresses me out , I have no idea what wrong
( seeing a consultant next month )

he does not have any SEN , I am following poo nurses advice and its not down to my “gentle parenting “

my elder daughter who has a EHCp sen potty trained like a dream , quick and easy no drama , hardly any accidents

its filthy , stinks the house out , expensive , embarrassing and now it’s the new shaming stick to hit parents with !
if you are lucky enough not to be dealing with this count yourself lucky and to those that are judging = shove your judgement up your judgy arses!!

Oh and we are not a chaotic or struggle home

Our brother HATES us mentioning this (which is, of course, why we do!) but when he started school he still wore nappies because he couldn't be SURE to stay dry all day. We -myself, my sister, and our mother- had spent so much time with him and he was 90% "dry", but he wasn't guaranteed.

Do you think it's fair that primary school teachers are having to clean and change him?

@UnawareThat

It sounds like your DGS isn’t getting the support he needs at home. I’m sure his mum means well, but this just isn’t okay. Your dd's son can do what he wants, and others are left to clean up after him. It’s not right to expect teachers and low-paid school support staff to deal with things like dirty nappies, no wonder teachers are leaving the profession. I

I agree that many parents don’t seem to parent their kids properly anymore. The useless behaviour in primary schools is worrying, and sadly, a lot of it starts at home. Sure Start was a great service, and I think it’s something Labour could bring back to really help families and society as a whole.

@ThejoyofNC can you not see that this is an incredibly unkind question to ask the mother of a dc with toileting issues?

He needs and deserves an education. Since the 1990s teachers have known they were training to work in inclusive schools as dc with SEND were moved into mainstream.

Yes, I think very bad advice on this from many different sources has made it a bigger problem.

That combined with children not being at home much, and better diaper technology, is really a perfect storm.

When DS 2 ( now 13 ) started school nursery, the term after their 3rd birthday, it was stipulated that they had to be toilet trained. Everyone I know who wanted their child to attend, made that happen.

Talking to a TA at his Junior School ages 7-11, there are children in each year who need changing daily.

You know what isn't fair? The fact that he got cancer and is now disabled because of it.

What's the alternative? He wouldn't get a place in special school because he's capable of accessing mainstream education.

His teacher doesn't clean and change him, for the record. He has an intimate care plan in place as well as an EHCP. 2 named people on his intimate care plan clean and change him and they both work with disabled children and know it is part of their job to clean and change children.

That sounds hard but 2-5 soiled nappies in a day? That's a lot. What types of food and amounts is your son eating?

Years ago the school my kids attended had a couple of kids still not properly dry by school. These were 4.5 and 5 year olds. The school would call the parent to come and see to their own child, or send someone to do it. Teachers never changed them. SEN kids had their own person at the school who only saw to them, no one else.
It was amazing how fast the parents put in some time and effort and got the kids dry.
The parent themselves admitted to the head that they hadn't been encouraging and figured the child would get it on their own eventually.

It's a genuine question. Of course he needs an education. But I honestly think this is too far outside of the job description. I'm not sure what the solution would be, but the current one seems very unfair to me.

We are talking about 9 year olds. Or even 5 year olds, who a generation ago were perfectly capable in most cases of memorizing a six digit number. Or even calling home on their own.

Who would it help?
Why do you need to know?

My son was incontinent until aged 7 (health related) he was changed standing in the sink area . Not private, not ideal. I don’t think changing facilities mean parents won’t bother to toilet train. It’s an acknowledgment that there are more Sen kids in mainstream and things need to change .

Did HV used to get involved with toilet training?. My lot are 34,30 and 21. Saw FFHV as tiny babys then 9 moths and 2.5 years. Don't remember them involved in toilet training at all

Parent of SEN child. Child had 1:1 in nursery, child needed nappy changes and support in potty training.

Mainstream schools in UK - this is what happened in our schools.

Thd Teacher Assistant was REQUIRED to have special “training & qualification” to nappy change. There was also a special change table that went up & down so staff didn’t get lifting heavy object injury. She did not work with, or change nsppies for anyone else.

Thankfully he was potty training by Reception, but I know there was another SEN child in Reception who needed help sometimes, that child had 1;1 trained.

The change room is there to support children with a documented need. There will be staff who are allowed.