Mayflower primary school - nappy changing facilities for school aged children

[2011j]

AIBU to think this shouldn't be necessary?

Not including those with sen, children should be potty trained before starting school - AIBU?

These are nine year old children. They should be quite capable of memorizing a number of that length (they are typically 9 digits where I live.) A fair few also don't know how to spell their last name, nor do many know their addresses.

For context, these are classes coming to check out library books, and children whose accounts we are trying to look up. They don't know enough information to be able to find them in the system. The children's services person who was for many years a preschool teacher is shocked - they typically would work with their children before school starting age to know their full name, phone number, and address - it's a serious safety issues if nothing else.

Mind you they don't seem to work now to develop memory skills in the children generally.

I'm with you here. We have zero family support, work full time and our daughter was in nursery full time from 13 months. She was toilet trained at 2 and a half. We hadn't a clue how to so it so basically googled it and read about it and got it done. We've done the same thing for most things. Probably made lots of mistakes along the way but we try our best.

Parents need to take personal responsibility for their children's development rather than assume that either kids will work it out for themselves or that it's someone else's job.

For children with SEN I completely understand but in the absence of SEN I don't have much sympathy.

If something happens, for example they get lost, how do you expect them to tell an adult how to get in touch with you?

"Their" phone number is the number to contact their parents, not themselves!

Out of curiosity, what do you think has caused the explosion in numbers? I have a child with autism and I have noticed the increase so I'm intrigued. The year below her at school (mainstream), has over 80% with some sort of diagnosed or suspected SEN.

My son has only just received his asd diagnosis he's never come out of pull ups (he can use a toilet to poo independently, just not wee)

Gentle' parenting approaches aim to avoid conflict or frustration, which can lead to fewer clear boundaries and routines. This, in turn, can delay the development of independence and self-regulation.
So, some parents believe their child isn’t ready for toilet training, but children don’t always become ready on their own. Like learning to walk or ride a bike, using the toilet is a skill that requires patience, encouragement, routine, and consistent practice. Equally, some parents delay starting because they worry about resistance, mess, or stress. Modern conveniences like pull-ups and wipes can also make it feel easier to postpone training, even when a child is capable of learning.
Waiting too long can make the process more difficult, especially if the child becomes comfortable and reliant on nappies.
Excessive screen time means today’s children are growing up surrounded by smartphones, tablets, and streaming content from a very young age. This constant digital stimulation reduces their tolerance for boredom, shortens attention spans, and limits their ability to engage in independent or imaginative play. It can also interfere with body awareness, when children spend long periods focused on screens, they may become less attuned to physical signals like needing the toilet.
Many 6 and 7 year-olds are unable to sit still, follow instructions, or engage appropriately in the classroom. Too many children have not been properly socialised during their early years and, as a result, they are simply not ready for the structure and expectations of school life. This is made worse by permissive parenting styles, where boundaries are not clearly defined, and by excessive screen time, which impacts attention span, emotional regulation, and social development. The result is a growing number of children starting school without the basic skills they need to succeed.
This shift places enormous pressure on teachers and schools diverting resources away from learning and toward behaviour management and basic care.

This.

I say this as a working parent - its pretty obvious that the higher volumes of nursery childcare for children under 3 thst have become common in the last 20 years, isn't producing good levels of child development.

Because people are lazy.

I’m not saying we should go back to it but stay at home Mums were far more common 40 years ago who had time to devote only to the children and the household (at the expense of their education, career and sanity often).

We’re far more aware of SEN now though. I remember at Primary School there were kids in the infants who had accidents all the time but they soon got the hang of it.

We had a late potty trained toddler, despite doing our best. Finally diagnosed at ten with all sorts of SEND.

I think more parents working full time may also be part of the trend here. Nurseries don’t have time to potty trained multiple children without support from home and without being at home with a parent all day it’s harder for some kids to train.

In defence of those parents, the NHS website (which is a perfectly reasonable place for parents to go for advice on things like this) lists signs of readiness in the order they generally appear, and says that it might be easier to wait until your child is further along than to try and toilet train earlier.

Nurseries are usually keen to get toddlers potty trained ASAP as it is far less work for them once they are out of nappies. So I don’t think it’s that.

I wonder what the trend would be if schools were allowed to delay admission for children until they were toilet trained?

Nurseries might be keen but inconsistent approaches between home and nursery make it trickier

OK, so we've established that there is a problem here with children who don't have special needs, and the issue is parenting.

So, MN policy advisors ... post your suggestions for government solutions and let's hope one of Kier's minions is reading this thread!

This would be dreadful - so ableist and my ds would have missed out on education and become even further behind

Well I don’t expect my 3 year old to remember my mobile number.

Unless it's a special school, schools should not allow children that can't even wipe their own behind.
It's disgusting to expect school staff to do it.

This is the problem with these kind of discussions. I went to school with a disabled girl (wheelchair user) who needed toilet assistance up until she left at 18. Why should she be sent to a special school when she was bright and perfectly capable of accessing mainstream ? Why were her toileting needs “disgusting”?

Nurseries are usually keen to get toddlers potty trained ASAP as it is far less work for them once they are out of nappies. So I don’t think it’s that.

The nursery that we have DN at, and the one that we recently removed him from, don't get involved in potty training. They insist on nappies until two weeks of training at home before they allow them to be nappy free at nursery. They do allow pull ups, but don't guarantee toilet reminders.

I think staffing levels are part of the reason as DDs old nursery were very proactive in assisting toilet training.

It would be completely discriminatory to disabled children for a start.

How would you intend to make sure it was only targeted at children with lazy parents?

Because in the past any children with delayed issues would be sent away to SEN dedicated schools where full care needs including changes absolutely would be taken care of as standard.

What a cop out!

My mum had 3 children with an age gap of 1 and a half years and my dad worked full time
We all learned to use the toilet before nursery.

Lazy people.
How does being a single parent stop you from teaching your kid to use a potty and then toilet?!

There are beggars in India whose kids know how to defecate and wash and they don't even have an actual toilet.

Seems like a cultural issue.

My son is disabled but not disabled enough for special school. He is bowel incontinent and needs to be changed when he soils himself.

He has no learning difficulties and is capable of accessing a mainstream education but he needs toileting support.

When was he diagnosed? I bet it wasn’t before he started reception.

Exactly.

My son is also in a wheelchair and needs toilet assistance. He loves learning and is perfectly capable of mainstream.

A special school simply because he needs help with toileting wouldn't be suitable for his educational needs.