To think voting for assisted dying legalisation could be a huge mistake???

[MyLimeGuide]

In Scotland they are voting to legalise assisted dying. Looking likely to pass. I am worried this will come to England now. Kier is already proving he doesn't care about old and disabled people so this scares me.
Obviously there are 2 sides but how can people be so ignorant? If passed this could be one of the biggest opportunity for corrupt evil behaviour of saving money on the NHS, care, people literally getting away murder, playing god! No not good. It's so scary.

I believe the option is not allowed to be mentioned to the patient by a Dr nor is anyone other than the patient able to discuss the option with the Dr, is that right?

That sounds totally reasonable. I hope that is what happens in the UK.

Here's what you wrote:
Sure, and everyone can jump off a bridge if that's what they decide.

Your compassion for people is really showing. Aling with your consistency.

My biggest fear would be the NHS gets slowly privatised, medicines are more expensive, people simply can't afford it.
So they suffer or decide life just isn't worth living because they can't see any joy - such as taking away the heating allowance for elderly

Hunched in bed, in a coat, freezing your already aging bones, too old to start again, watching politicians kept their bloody heating allowance.

They are going to get ill, aren't allowed out of hospital, not enough carers, no care home place, go downhill rapidly. Oh, might as well shuffle off, can't get better.

It's naive to think it's just the terminally ill this is aimed at. Someone's making money- who? Pharma?

PTSD to the living relatives.
Assisted dying isn’t meant to make someone dying easier on their relatives doing a deathbed vigil.

Yes it is selfish for you to prioritise your comfort watching someone die versus those actually dying.

And those who have been coerced to an early grave, are not “bullshit hypothetical possibility” these are real people who have been killed who should not have been. Many were not even terminally ill.

Had to watch several people die from terminal deserve under inhumane conditions. You cannot make these situations better. People
shoukd have a choice not to endure that. It’s a naive statement to disagree with people having autonomy over their own lives.

I think some people are getting way ahead of themselves.

I can't see the problem with a system that says you can have assisted suicide (that you administer yourself) if you have 6 months left and are terminally ill.
And terminally ill does not mean cancer... it can mean a whole host of other illnesses too.
If made legal, assisted suicide also provides protection for your family. If they are there with you, they wont be arrested under caution and have to explain why they were holding your hand whilst you took an overdose.

How it is now, yes you can commit suicide it is legal after all.. but you have to do it totally alone.

In that case, it can’t be performed. You have to have decision making capacity. There is a little bit of leeway with the administration, I think you can perhaps have some assistance with that. It needs to be arranged before the person is moribund.

You can choose not to watch someone die. You don’t have to endure it.
Pallative care can be made better.

Another one who hasn't actually witnessed someone they love suffer.

It's got naught to do with the relatives. It is not selfish to avoid torture for some random hypothetical possibility. And yes it it hypothetical at this point because of the proposal being discussed.

Yes, you have to apply to a separate government agency. It needs to be done in advance. If you are in hospital in your last week or two of suffering, you’ve left it too late.

My thoughts and feelings are with real life people. Yours are with hypothetical people who only exist in your imagination.

Instead of engaging with the science and real experiences of suffering as detailed in this thread, you are trying to save people who don't actually exist.

I would say Mr Starmer, by all means come and talk to me about introducing assisted dying, when there is a genuine option to choose instead for dignified living. Right now it's a loaded choice, and very interesting how these ideas are raised while the health and social care systems fail, life is for "working people" and fuck ill and disabled people, and oh look at that - budgets are tight.

Yes I have actually. It is most unpleasant how you continue to assume we haven’t witnessed death.

It isn’t hypothetical because this isn’t the first ever assisted dying law in the west, or Europe or the Commonwealth or a democracy. English speaking countries with very similar governments and culture, whose legal systems are based in English common law too have this law. Some for decades and in every country, coercion has been a problem as has the slippery slope to include euthanising people for being poor or disabled, not terminally ill.

They do exist. It’s not like we are saying house elves and griffins will die.

Can you please point me towards where I or the poster you were replying to this time said that palliative care doesn't work in most cases. Thanks.

Surely the crux of the matter is ensuring that whoever partakes is terminally ill and has a medically diagnosed condition that they will die of in the not too distant future? Be accepting of that criteria and vehemently opposed to any other, then no one can be coerced if they are poor disabled or mentally ill.

What are the stats for people being coerced into ending their lives prematurely in countries where assisted dying is a legal choice @SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice?

Totally 👏💯

I’m Canadian and I assure you, there is no mass panic about it here. I know of two people who have used it, both were spared months of intolerable suffering for nothing. If someone has an incurable illness, including a chronic illness where their suffering cannot be managed with treatment, should it not be their choice?

There is no pressure to use it here. My father has a stage 4 cancer and this has not even been brought up by his medical team. He gets top notch care in the public health system in a poorer part of Canada.

@TooBigForMyBoots

What science?

Are you denying murder and domestic abuse? 1/4 women will be abused in their lifetime and mothers are being increasingly abused by their children.

Ill people are very vulnerable, isolated and susceptible to pressure. Two women a week are murdered on average and many kill themselves because of abuse.

A report was cited earlier where partner's of women had 'euthanised' them as part of their abusive relationship.

The NHS is crumbling, there's not enough investment in anything never mind this new bill. There's a chance it could be expanded to include disabilities or mental health. It could be used as a cost cutting exercise.

I'm sure if your abusive dad persuaded your mum to end her life you wouldn't be so blasé.

OnlyDespairRemains · Today 21:23
What other options? You mentioned palliative care but everyone knows that this doesn't work in quite a lot of cases.

The poster said quite a lot of cases and has yet to back it up with evidence. Thanks for the reminder.

The science and biology of dying.

No idea where you got the idea that I'm denying murder or domestic abuse.

So can you point me towards where I or the poster you were replying to said most or not?

There are tons of resources

“Assisted dying is being abused in Canada with doctors coercing patients into ending their lives, members of the group who helped to legalise it have admitted.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/assisted-dying-abused-in-canada-admits-group-that-helped-legalise-it/ar-AA1sZcGd

“A member of the Committee examining the issue said: “This worrisome finding suggests that MAiD could be the option of least resistance and be used to end lives when social policies have failed them.”
And he warned that “the UK should not assume it will manage this better or avoid potential pitfalls”, saying, “real lives are at stake and the dangers of a slippery slope are very real”.”
https://care.org.uk/news/2024/10/poor-lonely-and-homeless-opting-for-assisted-death-in-canada

“…well-documented abuses, horror stories, and mission creep in Canada, the Netherlands and Belgium…..
“.. in Oregon whose health authority now interprets “terminal illness” as any illness that would lead to death without treatment. This is quite different, of course, from how most of us understand terminal illness as a diagnosis where sadly death is inevitable regardless of any treatment offered. The result of this interpretative sleight of hand is that assisted suicides have been granted in Oregon in recent years for diabetes, arthritis, a hernia and, most disturbingly, anorexia – hardly conditions generally considered ‘terminal’.”
https://labourlist.org/2024/11/assisted-dying-bill-kim-leadbeater-oregon-mary-glindon/

It happened illegally in the UK during Covid. Pensioners in care homes were given lethal doses so they’d die quicker.
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2128/rr-11