To think voting for assisted dying legalisation could be a huge mistake???

[MyLimeGuide]

In Scotland they are voting to legalise assisted dying. Looking likely to pass. I am worried this will come to England now. Kier is already proving he doesn't care about old and disabled people so this scares me.
Obviously there are 2 sides but how can people be so ignorant? If passed this could be one of the biggest opportunity for corrupt evil behaviour of saving money on the NHS, care, people literally getting away murder, playing god! No not good. It's so scary.

I have read it. I believe you were referring to coercive control and I called you dismissive. However if you meant something else, it would be great if you could explain.

someone is feeling a bit sad and is persuaded to kill themselves after a few dropped hints.

This seems to refer to coercion as 'a few dropped hints'. However I'm interested to hear what you meant if I'm wrong.

If I knew they existed and it could be proved then of course it's sad. Life is not a bed of roses for so many people. Life is cruel and unfair. All we can do is try to make things better for as many people as possible.

@Tarrybankheidi, we have data on 'mercy killings' because that plea allows a murder charge to be downgraded to manslaughter, which has no mandatory sentence.

Here it is @OnlyDespairRemains

So now your memory is refreshed, maybe you could explain what you meant?

Yeah and what's so called 'mercy' killing got to do with legal assisted dying.

Dictionary definition of torture: inflict severe pain or suffering on

Which is exactly what is happening now as many medical practitioners are afraid of using effective pain relief too soon in case they are accused of the inevitable death. If you think forcing people to put up with bleeding from the eyes/vomiting faeces/slowly starving to death isn't torture, then what tf is???????

I didn't say anything like "it doesn't matter" or devalued their lives. I said it's not comparable to torture. Which it's not.

I was not referring to coercive control.

That is very different what I was actually replying to, where the previous poster had said that someone might chose to unwillingly to commit suicide because their family had dropped a few hints.

A few 'dropped hints' on their own is not coercive control or abuse.

That is not the doctors or society inflicting pain. The disease is inflicting the pain.

The Cambridge dictionary definition for torture is "the act of causing great physical or mental pain in order to persuade someone to do something or to give information, or to be cruel to a person or animal".

Giving someone palliative care but not actively killing them is not torture.

So we have capacity to decide for animals but not for ourselves?

Again, you only seem to be reading my post, which means nothing without the post it was replying to. My memory is fine thanks.

That's the noun torture not the verb.

It IS the medical team and society that inflicts pain by considering it socially acceptable to do everything possible to keep someone alive. The disease should not have progressed as far as it has if it's got to the kinds of horrific scenarios we're talking about.

Yes, and a basic thing we can do is try not to vote in laws that will cause innocent people to be coerced into dying.

We are all allowed to refuse medical treatment. If you do not want your medical team to go to extreme lengths to keep you alive, you are allowed to say no. You can even make a living will to set out your wishes in advance.

No. No it cannot keep all sufferers comfortable unless you count comfortable as being heavily sedated and intubated. How many mote times do I have to say this.

I said make things better for as many people as possible. And don't forget we are talking about people in certain pretty awful by all accounts situations to begin with. I know there is no way of proving this but I really do think more people than not would wish to have the choice (even on the off chance of some poor dying soul somewhere across the globe might have felt it wasnt 100% their own decision).

Also, the verb is "to cause great physical or mental pain to someone intentionally". That is again very different to giving someone palliative care but stopping short of actively killing them.

Humans die, hopefully of natural causes, unfortunately often painfully. That is not torture.

Do you realise how specific you have to be in a living will for it to be legally binding? Fine for common things like refusing CPR or ventilation. Pretty fucking useless for more obscure conditions that can kill you...of which there are a lot!

And quite often the treatment you can refuse has a good chance of saving your life and a small chance of fucking it up beyond recognition. Great for the majority, and worth the risk for almost all! But if you're the unlucky 5% or whatever it fucks ... what good is a living will then?

That's one thing we do agree on, you can't make sweeping generalisations. So the decision can only be made by the person who is dying.

It should be their choice. And when my time comes, should be my choice.

Intentionally is not part of the definition in the Oxford dictionary

Yes of course comfortable can mean heavily sedated if that means you're not in pain.

Palliative care is a holistic approach which can include heavy pain medication that keeps you sedated.

The verb definition in the Oxford dictionary says-
to hurt somebody physically or mentally in order to punish them or make them tell you something

So it lists two specific intents- punishment or make someone tell you info.

pallative care is not torture.

Sedation is not pain relief.
Sedation does not mean asleep.

If you're days from death, how is sedation any better than fatal painkillers?

Sure, humans don't have a great track record when it comes to making ethical decisions.

If push comes to shove, I think you're right that a lot of people would selfishly choose to stop the pain even if they knew it meant some stranger dying.

That's why we should try to ensure that the law gives equal protection to all without prioritising one person's comfort over another person's life.

That's the noun definition

You have no idea then.

How many people have you watched die @MiloMinderbinder925?