To think voting for assisted dying legalisation could be a huge mistake???

[MyLimeGuide]

In Scotland they are voting to legalise assisted dying. Looking likely to pass. I am worried this will come to England now. Kier is already proving he doesn't care about old and disabled people so this scares me.
Obviously there are 2 sides but how can people be so ignorant? If passed this could be one of the biggest opportunity for corrupt evil behaviour of saving money on the NHS, care, people literally getting away murder, playing god! No not good. It's so scary.

Because the bill seems to be a very badly thought through.

Do they?

Many posters have shared stories of loved ones’ suffering. Maybe you can try and see things from their perspective.

And maybe grow some compassion. If you have a place where it can grow, of course.

There are quite a few things I am willing to do to make sure that a vulnerable person is OK. There are already quite a lot of things, both big and small, that we all do to help those less fortunate than ourselves.

Asking me to suffer overwhelming pain and misery and forcing my family to watch it happen for the sake of a total stranger is not something you should think is OK or reasonable.

I dont think it's an argument as you could apply the same 'logic' to so many other situations. Oh no sorry you cant do this or do that on the off chance someone else might be part of a scumbag family who somehow find a way to abuse the system. If your lucky enough to have loved ones you've got to have faith in them!

There's a thread right now about the government's proposals for pip- and this is a Labour government, in five years time we might have Reform in power. I find the idea that it will be handled better in the UK than in Canada a bit optimistic.

Describing it as a painful death is diminishing what some people go through. I would describe it more as torture. Many torture methods are actually kinder than what some people have gone through as they die.

We're not talking about vulnerable people dying prematurely as in decades. We're talking weeks/months tops.

It's not comparable. Forced torture Vs a few weeks earlier than they'd like.

Unlikely _- there is a tight eligibility criteria.

The way I’ve seen some people suffer during my career….
I often thought ‘an animal would never be allowed to suffer like
this…’

I'm struggling to think of other situations that literally permit killing other people. What did you mean?

Take responsibility for my own life? What do you mean exactly?

Edited: Because I'm still not sure what the rest of the post actually meant.

Pragmatically, someone who is 'vomiting faeces' isn't going to be able to take drugs orally. They'll come straight back out. And he isn't going to be able to set up and administer an IV line for himself, is he?

😆 I'm going to allow someone to murder me 😆 how does that even work. I don't think that's murder if I allow it (and it being legal which murder certainly isnt)

I mean exactly what I said. Make a 'Living Will' now, while you're in a fit state to do it.

"Waah, I want somebody else to kill me - and other people" just doesn't look like a responsible position to me.

But maybe, just maybe, they could push a button?

Depends. An IV line could be set up for them, and they release the drugs themselves. That is what happens at Dignitas.
But anyone whose future was vomiting poo is going to want to avoid getting to that point anyway.
Again, why insist people die on their worst day? We give our pets more dignity.

We already have laws restricting our actions and movements in order to protect vulnerable people. For example, there are lots of hoops teachers and others have to jump through to protect vulnerable children.

I find your attitude incredibly self-centered. It's all about you and your loved ones. What about other people in society as a whole? Laws like this shouldn't be based on emotion. The law is (ideally) there to protect everyone and shouldn't prioritise your fear of a painful death over protecting someone else from being coerced into killing themselves.

How do you know that suicide isn't an option for everyone with a terminal illness? The vast majority of people are not going to be completely physically incapacitated.

We are talking about assisted suicide here. The patient needs to be able to take the medication themselves.

You can read about the lack of good palliative care here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gxn07pw95o

Here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn9x00v88pzo

Here
https://www.mariecurie.org.uk/research-and-policy/policy/better-end-life-report

Here
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/assisted-dying-debate-palliative-social-care

No but, "I might want somebody else to kill me - and other people (if that's what they want)" seems fine to me.

"Waah"? Really?

Yet we slaughter animals for food and keep them in diabolical conditions.

quite the derail from this topic though.

I think the problem with arguing for “good palliative care” is thst in order for it to be effective it can have the consequence of killing off the patient. Doctors delay giving potentially fatal drugs until patients are at deaths door so as to not be accused of killing off patients which leads to suffering.

It’s a catch 22 effective palliative care can sometimes equal involuntary euthanasia. If you want to avoid the killing of people by doctors you can’t have effective palliative care for all.

How do you know that suicide isn't an option for everyone with a terminal illness? The vast majority of people are not going to be completely physically incapacitated.

Did you read those two sentences together before you posted them? Because "everyone" and "the vast majority" are not the same things.

Assisted dying includes both assisted suicide and euthanasia for cases where a patient is physically unable to take drugs orally with their own hands. They wouldn’t pass an assisted dying law that only allows the abled who can take drugs by mouth to access now would they? Nope, that would violate the equality act. So assisted dying allows for HCP administered deaths by lethal injection or putting the drugs in a feeding tube. If it were only assisted suicide, the bill would not be called assisted dying or written the way it is written.

They do have a choice, they can commit suicide or refuse further treatment in order to shorten their lives. Good palliative care can keep them comfortable.

Really? Im in favour of it as it will benefit far more people and far more people who really are suffering, than potentially the few who may potentially be coerced into asking for assisted dying in their final days.

You dont want it because your concerned about yourself and your loved ones and the hypothetical situation that you or them might one day get involved with an abusive predator who then also hypothetically might manage to coerce them into using assisted dying. And I'm the one being self centered?

Yes. You are already able to decide how quickly you're allowed to die in various medical situations. This is control of your own death. So why not do do that, instead of trying to introduce euthanasia (murder) by the back door?

Assisted suicide would include medical staff being required to give you pain relief but no life-prolonging treatments, or only some but not others. The legal framework for this already exists. You can even have expert advice on what to disallow and when, free of charge.