To think Starmer has shot himself in the foot.

[TheQuickRobin]

This isn’t about my own opinion but political strategy.

So he does this Island of strangers thing wanting to appeal to Labour heartlands who have gone to Reform. But.

I just think Reform voters won’t believe him?

Tories hate him becaus he’s Labour.

Middle class Labour lefties will be put off by the message.

Who does he think he’s winning over?

Anyone on here had their opinion of him changed?

IABU - I thought he was a prat now I think he’s on my team

IANBU - EITHER I thought he was a prat, still think he’s a prat OR I liked him now think he’s a prat.

Very unscientific poll here!

I’m guessing a fair few who will be hit by this voted Labour at the last GE.

The issue is does Starmer care if those votes are lost and who would they vote for instead

Pragmatic politicians listen to the mood of the public, and act accordingly. If politicians don't listen to the public and don't change and act based on that, we'd be angry. He is simply doing his job. Adjusting to the mood of the public. Which is what we should expect from a leader and Prime Minister. Ignoring the public is political death.

I think you need to look at how the Nazis treated disabled and otherwise "othered" people before they really got going.

I think you need to take a look at the language used by Rachel Reeves over the last ten years and the policies in the pipeline laid by Kendall.

Yeah my mistake, I thought I'd read somewhere that they plans would only focus on those receiving universal credit, and that they'd need to be eligible for PIP to claim

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rachel-reeves-says-labour-does-not-want-to-represent-people-out-of-work-10114614.html

"We are not the party of people on benefits. We don’t want to be seen, and we're not, the party to represent those who are out of work," Reeves, 2015

I agree. The "red wall" changed to Boris first, resulting in his landslide win, and now shifted to Reform. Labour hasn't "attracted" those areas for a while now yet they clearly want something different.

Meanwhile, ten years, three general elections, six prime ministers, a pandemic and Brexit later …

Odd take. But we agree, she was alienating the disabled long before the shit hit the fan.

The issue for him is he spent the first ten months calling the same people far right and dog whistle etc and now wants them back.

Plus people who do rely on state support probably voted for Labour last time and didn’t expect it to be cut.

What do the LP actually believe in?

Their paymasters! The public sector unions. Nothing else matters to them as they can't bite the hand that feeds them.

I used to live and work in 2 countries, both islands, that got immigration right.

They needed highly skilled people, and very low skilled people, and didn’t need people in the middle. If your company tried to get a work permit for a job that could be done by a local, it got rejected and they got a warning that their future requests would be denied.

In addition, there were very tight controls. You received no benefits, and you had to have private medical insurance. If you broke the law you had your work permit cancelled. Before you got your work permit you had to have a medical and if you had something they didn’t like (Hep C, aids ) it was denied. If you were a very low level worker, and you got pregnant, you work permit was denied.

Everyone got along mostly and we all celebrated and included everyone in each others festivals.

The both had loads of police who would be on the beat and they’d stop you, ask for your ID, and check it on some database. It was illegal not to carry your ID. They then took illegals away and then deported them without all the handwringing we have here.

Its simple, other do it and don’t have boat loads rocking up seeking asylum as they know they won’t get to stay and they’d get zero assistance.

Their jobs first and not crashing out after one term probably

How did we end up so useless?

(a) Nobody is "an illegal".

(b) How do refugees from war, oppressive regimes and the climate crisis fit into your utopia?

(c) Do you imagine many people would like living somewhere that the police regularly stopped them and demanded ID? Can you see any problem with that happening in the UK with our institutionally racist and misogynistic police force?

(c) looks ever more likely. Possibly to access any state services.

People talk about "the boats" without much knowledge as to why it happens. Firstly there are very few safe (legal) routes to the UK, and you can't apply for an asylum visa from outside the country.

Secondly, people are trafficked on small boats. They don't necessarily get to choose when or where they go.

Yes small boat crossings need to end. People are being exploited, in the worst cases they are losing their lives. The government is not being honest about this because if they were, they'd need to open up safe routes and consider asylum visas.

People do not, under international law, have to stop at the first country they arrive at. When I hear people bemoaning that refugees have passed through several countries to get to the UK, I realise that they are racists. Because continue that line of thought to its logical conclusion and our island wouldn't have a single refugee. It would be geographically impossible.

Nobody who complains about immigration ever makes a distinction between refugees and other migrants. Not that one is good and another bad, of course. Diverse societies are healthy and normal. But it shows a complete lack of compassion to demand we take nobody in, whatever their circumstances. War, food shortages and climate change mean one day that migrant could be you.

1125 illegal immigrants on small boats in the last three days.

It's insane how soft we are.

It's foolish though as it's going to lead to severe civil unrest.

Entering a country without a visa, right to live there, or work permit is illegal, and that makes you an illegal whether that is as an asylum seeker or economic migrant.

There are people fleeing conflict, but there are many not. For example, 42% of those arriving on boats in 2022 were Albanian. These are economic migrants that we paid to stay in hotels, gave free healthcare and other benefits.

WRT ID checks they stop people who look like a foreign worker. It happened to me once and it didn’t bother me. In fact it’s a minor inconvenience to live in a place with low crime. Believe it or not but some people go live and work in other places and accept their rules and act like a guest. If I didn’t like it, I was free to leave.

If he was really listening he'd act over illegal immigration.. and I don't mean cheap slogans about gang smashing.

Well that isn't going to help anything is it!

How many refugees are Saudi Arabia or Russia taking?

Then deal with the problem.