To think Starmer has shot himself in the foot.

[TheQuickRobin]

This isn’t about my own opinion but political strategy.

So he does this Island of strangers thing wanting to appeal to Labour heartlands who have gone to Reform. But.

I just think Reform voters won’t believe him?

Tories hate him becaus he’s Labour.

Middle class Labour lefties will be put off by the message.

Who does he think he’s winning over?

Anyone on here had their opinion of him changed?

IABU - I thought he was a prat now I think he’s on my team

IANBU - EITHER I thought he was a prat, still think he’s a prat OR I liked him now think he’s a prat.

Very unscientific poll here!

No they haven’t. @TheNuthatch is entirely right, this is Farage’s doing.

Your two comments show the lack of insight. Channel crossing numbers are up with Labour which increases Reform’s support.

I don’t mind if Labour ignore that as they’ll feel it in the polls.

The disproportionate amount of air time Farage gets for his abhorrent views has increased Reform’s support. Let’s see how much support they’ve got when they’ve been in charge of several councils for a few months, shall we?

Fair! I should have expanded out the IABU category thought of that this morning

Verrrry interesting this comment seems to assume a lot of things about my own opinions which I have been careful not to say.

My question was about whether he would have changed anyone’s mind. I’m genuinely interested in whether taking gambles like this (in making what was, we can all agree, an off-brand speech for a Labour PM) ever pay off. It was clear what he was trying to do and my view is it won’t work.

As for my own opinions… I could be a fully paid up member of the EDL and feel he’s not going far enough. It’s just interesting how we make assumptions about others’ views on anonymous forums based on so little 😁

I think what Eastern means here (and I agree with) is that Labour policies (wfa, welfare reforms etc) have exacerbated the feeling of abandonment amongst the least well off. The red wall is turning to Reform.

You really need to stop blaming the media for Labour's failings.

So you’ve changed your mind?

About what?

100%

How anyone can think that this is the Labour government which was promised prior to the general election, is totally beyond me.

This

Farage has very successfully managed to pin the blame for everything on immigration.

Tbf if Labour are blaming the media and everyone else they won’t fix the issues that are driving the poll shift. Ok fine.

Labour isn’t blaming the media. I am. Farage has always had a completely disproportionate amount of media coverage.

The Guardian today is saying the same as this thread:

Keir Starmer is caught in yet another trap of his own making | Rafael Behr | The Guardian

What gets me is that if the Tories had done what Labour are doing - winter fuel, disability, immigration - you wouldn't have been able to hear yourself think for the noise of Labour screaming 'nasty party' from the rooftops.

I was reading that article when you posted. There’s very little in it to disagree with.

Yes he has, that's his shtick. But he's not wrong when he claims that high immigration is having a negative impact on housing and health care. Labour's policies (which they failed to mention pre GE) have really pissed off an awful lot of voters.

I am just about in agreement with @matresense and would be in the Yvette Cooper camp on migration. The UK has lost its way in terms of what it does for all its people and the quality of life they lead.

The system in this white paper looks very much like Switzerland. They are extremely picky and they are very successful in managing migration. I spend a lot of time there professionally and I think the UK has a lot to learn from them.

Like most of the government, he is way out of his depth and his perception of the nation's mood is nil.

He has forgotten he is a elected PM and not a dictator...

If you're referring to the changes proposed in the recent Green Paper, loads of people will lose their PIP if it goes ahead.

According to the response to a recent FOI request, 87% of people getting the standard rate of the daily living component didn't get 4 or more points in any one descriptor. They will lose the daily living component of their PIP if the Green Paper changes go ahead.

It’s a reasonable point that you can vote him out if you don’t like it! The UK hasn’t suddenly become a dictatorship

Trouble is we probably have another 4 years until the next election, heaven help us..

Disgusting. I genuinely don't know how you can live with yourself.

Better hope you never become disabled because you'd be fucked for the policies those evil fuckers are bringing in.

@TheQuickRobin

i actually wasn’t assuming anything about your opinions specifically and it’s really interesting that you think that I was 😁. What I was saying in a long winded way was that in my view KS’s speech needed to go a bit beyond the technocratic and bland “immigration is a bit too high, the system is a bit broken, the numbers need to come down and we need to look at a few things here”, which is what I felt you might be saying that he should have said and anything beyond that would definitely alienate his own side without picking up any other votes. I honestly don’t think that is true at all - i think it’s hard to look as if you are fixing a problem if you are not articulating what the issues might be and why it matters, so I do think he needed to go a bit further, though “island of strangers” is not to my taste. I think that there is a lot of anger in the country, even within KS’s coalition of Labour voters, which is very broad but quite shallow (blue Labour, red wall etc). I think that there are a lot of voters who voted for KS due to frustrations with the incompetence and cravenness of the tories without any love or understanding of his particular values or vision. I don’t think they will necessarily turn out again for bland, better than the alternative, technocracy if what brought them out last time was a protest against the tories. He needs to demonstrate competence, but also understanding and connection to have a chance with the floating voters, especially whilst making it more expensive to employ people for small businesses and removing certain benefits.

Yes, Labour are the real champions of those with disabilities 😁

Just ask the 40 Labour backbenchers who can't stomach the government reforms.