To think Starmer has shot himself in the foot.

[TheQuickRobin]

This isn’t about my own opinion but political strategy.

So he does this Island of strangers thing wanting to appeal to Labour heartlands who have gone to Reform. But.

I just think Reform voters won’t believe him?

Tories hate him becaus he’s Labour.

Middle class Labour lefties will be put off by the message.

Who does he think he’s winning over?

Anyone on here had their opinion of him changed?

IABU - I thought he was a prat now I think he’s on my team

IANBU - EITHER I thought he was a prat, still think he’s a prat OR I liked him now think he’s a prat.

Very unscientific poll here!

Yanbu, I'm a leftie but I voted green and I'll never like him

Stuff like this, i saw coming. See also, disability benefit cuts. Didn't do it to PIP because of the middle clash backlash, but has decided to attack working class universal credit claimants claiming the disability element

Disgusting and unprincipled man. I know we'd never get a Jeremy corbyn again, but someone who at least cares about the poor and those who work all hours keeping our country going, would be great!

Agreed. When will we ever get a politician who actually has principles and values and creates policies based on those?!

I think you’re probably right OP

He's never going to out-Reform Reform and I think he’s alienated an awful lot of his actual voters with this.

I agree. People who like what Reform has to say but cant stomach actually voting for Farage will vote Tory as their “reform-lite”. Who will vote for Labour as reform-lite-lite?

Still a prat and actually even more full of shit than I previously thought

Andy Burnham for PM

I couldn't bring myself to like him even before the election. He's totally ruthless, fairly right of centre and brooks no dissent. But I'd hoped he'd do a bit better than this. All he's doing is opening the door to the far right. How stupid! It seems as though if he can get something badly wrong, he invariably will.

I’m Tory turned Reform and I was mildly impressed by what he said. I’ll vote labour next time if his plans work.

He is cutting PIP though. People with quite serious physical disabilities are terrified.

Well it was in the white paper so he is sticking to principles, and everyone who voted Labour obviously agreed with it, unless you're suggesting they didn't understand what they where voting for or easily lead?

But, to the point of your question, basically Starmer has to tackle immigration how the public wants on his terms otherwise Reform or worse starts to bubble up, there is a reason why Merkel, Cameron etc al have come out and said multiculturalism has failed and why the real far right (not mn standard) are rising across Europe.

The people who are concerned about the language or can extrapolate through contorted logic an echo to rivers of blood are stuck in the early noughtys where a simple accusation of racism would kill the conversation.

I say this a second gen immigrant, one that doesn't think 'but who will pick the fruit' is a convincing argument as I am not happy pretending I want a servitude class wrapped up into a progressive framework

I guess part of the problem is, you can have as many principles as you like, but do they translate to votes? And if they don’t it’s a Groucho moment, ‘These are my principles, and if you don’t like them…well, I have others.’….

He is not trying to out Reform Reform

He is listening to vast majority of voters the number one issue isn’t the NHS, isn’t the housing crises, isn’t the war in Gaza or Ukraine, isn’t concerns with Trumps chaos,

Labour have finally acknowledged that it’s immigration (as it is in the most western countries) immigration time and time again is coming up as a concern the left can no longer bury their heads in the sand about

Starmer just doesn’t particularly have political appeal. Put someone who can spin it better (like Blair could or Andy Burnham can) and you will have voters return

thats not to say Reform will lose their appeal over night or the Tories won’t pull it together before the next election (though I think it’s more likely to be the one after)

I am not a Labour voter AS SUCH but live in one of the safest Labour seats in London. Our borough's population is 63% "other than white British" and I love its diversity. I am also married to a person of white, non British heritage.

Speaking to people today... they are aghast that this has actually been said and it's not likely to be forgotten. Those are words that will stick in the mind - well at least I hope they do.

However, looking at the remaining ballot sheet: I have a couple of parties who can't actually work out what a woman is; and not even Count Binface.

Disenfranchised R Us springs to mind

Is he cutting pip? I'd read that pip would be fine but people on uc would have to get pip in order to get the disabled uc element?

I could be wrong, how horrible if so 😪

I think he's playing as shrewd a hand as he can.

He's also aware of just what an existential threat Reform are to British society. They embody evil in the same way that Trump does, sowing hate and division for their own bebenefitlook at the sheer fucking state the US is in with an entirety corrupt dictator in waiting at the helm. It could definitely happen here too.

I wss a huge Starmer detractor pre election but actually I think he's got stuff done, including difficult issues that a further left leaning leader wouldn't have touched.

I’m not a labour voter I’ll admit. But it just seems he personally has nothing he stands for his just flip flopping all over the place.

If my only issue was immigration I’d vote reform over him. He views and policies change as the wind does how can anyone back that.

Yes probably. If ‘smash the gangs’ keeps seeing higher numbers island of strangers won’t help them.

I'm with you on this @Panterusblackish. I just hope we're right!

You are wrong. the plan ( if it goes through) is to make PIP harder to claim by changing the criteria needed for an award of daily living. The worst case estimates are that it could affect 90% of claimants currently receiving the daily living element. LCWRA element of Universal credit will be linked to the daily living element of PIP so some unfortunate people could be set to lose up to £1000 a month overnight.

Fair enough, apologies all 🙌, I misunderstood

Even more evil than I thought.

Yeah thatcher stole the milk. Starmer is taking disabled people’s life line.

Pure evil

I really do think Starmer is in a shit spot on most issues but I also this he's hampered by relatively short-term thinking (albeit, Ukraine and Trump have rather demanded a lot of attention and resources).

Population decline is one of the big issues on the UK's horizon. Without net positive migration, and unless we can reverse our ailing birth rate, we have a huge economic and demographic crisis looming (as South Korea and Japan are facing now). Exponentially increasing net migration is not a long term solution (though it has assisted as a temporary sticking plaster).

We need to ween ourselves off high net migration, but can only do that if having larger families become more common.

I would like to politicians talk more openly and seriously about the issue and, in Labour's case, they should be advocating for economic and social policies that promote (or at least enable) people having larger families (scrapping the 2 child benefit cap would be a start). No developed country has solved the issue and it seems likely to be more complex than simply throwing at people to have kids, but I dare say that addressing the cost of living through a meaningful redistribution of wealth must be a part of the solution (well, unless we want to go down the forced breeding route, which I doubt).

I agree with her on very little, but do afford some kudos to Suella Braverman who is one of the few politicians I've seen speak about the issue, including specifically advocating for the scrapping of the benefit cap.

I'd like to see Starmer/Labour draw a link between the issues (cost of living, birth rate and immigration), and I'd prefer that the rhetorical focus was on maintaining a society/economy that is viable in the long term, rather than othering immigrants (and, though he was somewhat balanced, I don't like the use of "Strangers" in his speech).

He's also aware of just what an existential threat Reform are to British society

That's just a weasel way of saying he is just listening to the electorate and seeing the pattern across Europe.

If he is just doing it to head off Reform then he will end up being Reform lite, so in effect Reform has essentially still won the argument.

It's a cop out to pretend he is being shrewd to see off Reform when his pre election white paper addressed this and even had front page headlines in the Sun saying they would be tough, and not just realising the reality of the situation and they are addressing it.

And if it is all smoke and mirrors then the next iteration of reform will make some current reform voters blush

Yanbu, and I've written to my local Labour MP to say the same. They won't win over the right and they will totally alienate the left.

I don't know who's advising him but they have totally fucked up.