To feel it’s a motherhood penalty… AIBU?

[Yudl]

Recently got a new job in which they offered 95k. Unfortunately they would not be flexible on hours despite the fact that in my current role I work after collecting dd. Instead they said they would pay me until 3:30 which means my pay is effectively cut to under 75k (and only a small pay rise from where I am). I feel annoyed as I can do the hours they need but do need to do a pick up in between. We are expected to work some evenings anyway.

AIBU to feel miffed about this? DH is sadly no longer around to help

Recent studies suggest men want children more than women do. Fatherhood is in many ways a much more attractive prospect than motherhood. Being in a relationship is also disproportionately beneficial for men.

The future is many women choosing to remain single and child-free and many men involuntarily missing out on fatherhood.

To all those saying to cheat the WFH system, it's the most selfish thing you can do! Because if you get caught and your employer decides to do away with homeworking because of your behaviour, you ruin it for everyone and you'll be the most hated person in your company because you've stolen hours of their home life and slashed their salaries to pay for fuel costs 5 days a week again! Good luck going to a workplace everyday where you are despised by everyone!

If one cheats the employer and is doing school run in work time its unauthorised absence and payment for work not undertaken. Your employer can initiate disciplinary action.

It causes reputational damage when recruiting other parents, they’ll have an institutional memory of the decept
Employer could withdraw WFH for everyone as a repercussion. Adversely affect many people

in summary, it’s a dick thing to do

I don't earn anything like £75 never mind £95 but I managed to pay for after-school so I can work my hours???

Not if your working flexibly and make up the time later. Is going for coffee talking to others cheating the employer. Lots of people being over dramatic.

That is a silly scenario that is never going to happen

There is a health and safety implication when someone wants to mind a child and work at the same time. I've seen it in places I've worked where someone has asked to homework more so they can avoid childcare and it is frowned upon! Supposing you are on a teams meeting or wrapped up in work and your child burns themselves on something, falls down the stairs, cuts themselves etc etc! The company will not want to be the reason you were not watching your child for obvious reasons!

Also when they give out salaries of that magnitude, they usually expect a high level of stress, long hours worked and high level of concentration for that kind of money, not somebody wanting an easy part time school hours job.

This is NOT about flexible authorised working, it’s in response to the suggestion to deceive employer and do school run. A fuck it and just quietly do your own thing suggestion made by @Moveoverdarlin

Why can't you arrange after school club or child minder? That's what I do.

That.

it is not motherhood penalty…solo parent penalty maybe?

True,

during the interview « I have to do half the school run » avoid a lot of drama down the line. Employers do understand and if they don’t, then they won’t hire the ones that want to do it. But there is a hefty number of big companies that are agreeable to parent providing you are doing the job and also hiring nanny/after club in case solo parenting.

Agree for many the landscape has changed and flexi working and wfh are a feature for many workers. It’s a balance, flexi with expectation that you do the job and make adequate childcare arrangement . It’s absolutely not achievable to have a ft demand job and be fully present parent.

In this case I think the op needs to make adequate arrangements , take the 92k job and progress further

Yes!
plus an extra adult that you have selected and on call is very much a need as a solo parent anyway.

Yes YABU. The sense of entitlement is strong here. You aren’t working full time hours, why would you expect to still get paid a full time salary?

If you are getting that big a pay rise (£35k), I think you can afford to arrange for part time after care? Rather than demote yourself?

I think you’d honestly really benefit from working school hours anyway instead of working while your child is there or in the evening while they're sleeping. You managed to find a job that will literally allow you to have it all - the salary (reduced for part time hours) you already make and more time with your child ‘and’ a relaxing evening. Sounds ideal.

Stop being so tight and pay for the club. Also seek treatment for your head as nobody sane is that tight.

Of course you're being unreasonable- you must have known the terms and conditions associated with the job when you went after it......

Aware OP isn’t asking this, but while we’re on the subject of childcare and earnings, one thing that might be seen as a motherhood penalty is what can happen with maternity leave and pre-school childcare provision….

This is years ago, but when I was pregnant with my first child I got basic statutory maternity leave. After a year the cost of nursery in London was so astronomical I was making pretty much nothing after going back to work - so I went part-time. I then had two more kids, so two more mat leaves. This all had a huge impact on my career in the longer term, whereas DH could carry on progressing as normal.

Yes, my choice to have 3 kids, and my own fault for being in a relatively low paying industry in the first place, but I DO think the impact of maternity leave could be seen as a ‘motherhood penalty’.

Hogwash.

Anyone who prioritises their personal life or other pursuits over their career is going to lose progression and likely end up in lower-paying roles.

If anyone took big chunks of leave and worked the bare minimum over a period of 5-15 years and instead prioritised training for the marathon, or climbing Mount Everest, or volunteering, or becoming a novelist, or starting a side business as a baker, or yes, having children, it is likely that their career and wage would suffer. That is NOT a penalty. It is the natural consequences of personal lifestyle choices. We all have the same options.

There are 8 billion people on the planet. There is no shortage of humans and never will be. Sensible immigration reforms can fill consumer/labour needs in any country in the world. The time is long past that we need to pamper and reward people who choose to procreate at the expense of those who don't.

What we need to do is slow human reproduction and if need be take the hit for a generation or two (the old "who will change your nappies in your care home" idiotic argument) as the economy evolves. Not subsidize and reward the production of more on a burning planet that is losing other species every day.

Experiencing the natural financial, time, energy and career trade-offs involved in any personal lifestyle choice is NOT "being penalized."

With shared parental leave nowadays it’s a totally different situation anyway. am aware this doesn’t help single parents but there are efforts to smooth the gender differences which is good to see. Wasn’t an option when I had my kids so it’s interesting to see how my friends having kids now are balancing things differently.

I don’t think it’s a problem to assume a high earner can sort out their own logistics. This poster has many, many options. Plenty have way fewer and I’m more concerned about them. it’s ludicrous to think you should both get paid that amount of money ‘and’ refuse to let it change your life at all. I still maintain going part time sounds perfect but you could instead do some outsourcing and cover it that way. See no reason why your workplace needs to support your off schedule unless they choose to

or apply for flexible working and see what happens. Something like 7-8am, 9-2pm and 8-10pm? I had a member of staff do this - she was a single parent of two boys with additional needs after her husband passed awsy and really needed to work full time. She worked 5-7am, while they were at school and then two hours at night when they were in bed. Was totally brutal and I was concerned but it was the best option for her. She made less than a third of what you’re talking about though.

But you need to get permission! Some people on here are advocating breaching company rules by sneaking around without telling anyone! Get full permission so that you don't cause a problem for anyone else! As previously said doing it without permission could absolutely crap on everyone you work with and it will certainly put employers off hiring parents for WFH jobs.

@TheHerboriste - not sure it’s ‘hogwash’ in terms of what happens in the UK when a couple choose to have children. Yes, I follow your argument- parenthood is indeed a choice. But the broad expectation is that mothers, not fathers, take maternity leave. Much of this is for practical reasons: men don’t breastfeed, aren’t recovering from childbirth etc, so this makes sense. Without question, though - this ‘time off’ (and what follows in terms of childcare costs) does have an impact on women’s careers.

I don't agree and I'm a working parent myself. Maternity leave is what a year at most? I don't think this holds women back however a prolonged period out of the workplace while women choose to stay at home certainly does.

Its always sad to read that it's always women saying childcare outstrips their earnings and they are the ones having to give up work. Me and my husband view childcare as a joint expenditure and as such have both adjusted our work schedules to accommodate this.

I know you haven't said this but I get uneasy reading on here that women think because they are providing "future tax payers" that everyone should be grateful for them and special allowances should be made for them.

You don't think that can happen? Of course it can happen! I've had home based jobs where I've had to fill in a time sheet, a spreadsheet diary of how I spent every minute of my days, a summary of what I achieved that week and what I planned to achieve the week after! I used to have to that every Friday! Luckily I don't have to do any of that in my current job but I wouldn't take the piss either! I'm trusted and I want to keep it that way and my team mates and would never dream of spoiling it for each other! It's naive to believe that there aren't employers that don't monitor productivity and scrap WFH if people are not playing ball - I guarantee if you Google it, you will find something somewhere! Farage has just scrapped WFH at the councils his lot of taken over!