To feel it’s a motherhood penalty… AIBU?

[Yudl]

Recently got a new job in which they offered 95k. Unfortunately they would not be flexible on hours despite the fact that in my current role I work after collecting dd. Instead they said they would pay me until 3:30 which means my pay is effectively cut to under 75k (and only a small pay rise from where I am). I feel annoyed as I can do the hours they need but do need to do a pick up in between. We are expected to work some evenings anyway.

AIBU to feel miffed about this? DH is sadly no longer around to help

But why? By not being 100% present at work, you will be impacting others who are. You're having to leave work early/come in late and those without DC normally have to work harder to cover. You chose to have dc.

This isn't something to aspire to. Starting early, logging on after work, and skipping breaks are all signs of an unhealthy work dynamic. And perhaps these women should ask the child's dad to take a turn..?

@Sheldonsheher doing your job is not being a jobsworth. Good try though.

I don't know if this is helpful, but I've been paid 80% for the last 20 years to allow me to have Wednesday off to help me to cope with being disabled. I have always done a full week of work in terms of activity and attainment, but I've had to accept the reduction. To be fair, I thought it was absolutely fair enough, so it didn't cause me any resentment at all at the time. Now people are being paid 100% to work four days a week and the rationale is that all do is they cut out is their wasted time - chatting, lunch breaks, popping out for coffee etc. I cut that all out 20 years ago in order to get my work done in the reduced time. I can't remember the last time I had a lunch break. I have been doing a full-time job for 80% pay for a very long time. I sometimes have to remind myself to not feel resentment!

With that in mind, I would be tempted, if I were you, to say "let's see what I can do during my probation - you are paying me to perform a role, not to clock in and out at a particular time, and I think there is a very good chance I will perform the role just fine in the time I work. If you aren't happy, then we can revise the contract". Mention these people being paid full-time to work a 4 day week, and tell them that as a mother, you are particularly good at making the most of your effort. It is worth a try.

In the end you may just have to do what I have had to do - accept that you got the thin end of the wedge. But, at least if they stop paying you at 3:30pm, by their system of watching the hours instead of concentrating on the role, you can stop thinking about work at that exact point, and tell them to bugger off if they want you to do anything later. It takes two to tango. But you can't be buggered both ways.

But it completely depends on the work place. I work in social work and our local authority is great at offering flexible working arrangements. However at full time I'm expected to work core hours. If there is a crisis or emergency with one of my clients because I was unavailable due to school runs then yes someone else would be expected to pick up the slack and I can see how resentment builds.

There are still lots of family friendly employers that however if you work full time you are still required to be available during core hours. The OPs new employer sounds like they've been more than generous with her.

Earning a hundred grand a year gives you plenty of options.

Goodness, it beggars belief that other mums are so against a single mother earning great money (which I am sure they'll work hard for) and still wanting to pick their kids up. That is good money but post tax is about £5,500 a month take home which in many parts of the country won't exactly see you tripping over in cash. 2x parents on £33000 a year - not massive salaries - would take home around the same. Not an option for a single parent though, who is fulfilling the role of both parents at the same time without any respite.

I agree it is a penalty - whether you view it as a motherhood one or a single parent one. Flexibility is offered by many companies - could you offer to formalise it? Core hours and out of hours targets for example? I work in the evenings to make up extra hours - unless you have to be permanently on the end of the phone what difference does it make!

Is it just you? I don’t think it is a motherhood penalty. Just this job is not compatible with your preferred working style. I had a similar position and worked my exact hours and not a second more.

Stop working at 3pm.

The same would apply if that were OP's preferred time for her daily judo class!

Bit nosey, but can I ask what your profession is to earn a salary like that?
I'm genuinely very interested!

They’re only signs of an unhealthy work dynamic if you assume 9-5 is healthy. Again - a pattern designed by men for men, not factoring in any domestic responsibilities.

This

Good for you….?

You can do those things even if you have kids you know 🤫

I do agree with your previous point but no need to try and be a dick about it!

I disagree, working 8-8 (for example) but logging off 9-10 for drop off and 3-4 for pick up and 5-6 for dinner would be massively disruptive to a work day and not healthy. I think it's interesting that working early and late with long breaks seems to be desirable in a WFH office job. If someone worked in Starbucks and were rotaed on 8 hours a day 8am - noon and 4pm - 8pm I don't think you'd be arguing it was a healthy work dynamic.

Your numbers aren't right. 33k x 2 is roughly 5.5k gross. More like 4.5k net, and that's not accounting for pension, student loan etc. You'd need two people on more like 43k each for 5.5k net.

Working hours were never originally made to fit in round DC which I guess is patriarchy.
It's only since covid that you can get a part time season ticket.
So yes parents and that's usually the mum who does most of the childcare has to make compromises.
Is an after school club or child minder a possibility?
Many employers are more flexible nowadays and in my work place some, usually senior, colleagues do a school run then sign in in the evening.
The flip side is they work through lunch and now is become common place for meetings to be scheduled over lunch time to accommodate them, when I want to take my lunch!
Your employer isn't being flexible, which is a shame but I guess their prerogative, it must depend on the role, there are a lot of jobs which don't offer flexibility, you either take it their offer or you don't.
A small payrise and less working hours could be seen as a win.

Why not? If the shifts were covered and people were happy to work like that?

I do a job that can absolutely be done very flexibly, I have no meetings and little collaboration with others, I work very independently. I can go for hours without getting a single email. And I can do the bulk of my work just as well at 9pm as 10 am, especially as a chunk of people who do email are in the US.

My workplace, pre-pandemic, hated flexible working and made it very difficult to get. People on this thread would assume a valid business reason for that. Colour me astonished when a few years later the director in charge of this told me that it was because they were paying a lot of rent on a fancy office and didn’t want staff to not be there. That was it. Nothing to do with anyone’s actual role. No valid business reason. And when we were all sent home during Covid, well, gosh, everyone worked really well and we had some of our most profitable years.

This thread is dripping in petty bitterness and jealousy. Still, I’m big believer in karma 🤣.

This must be a post Covid lockdown attitude.
When my DC were in primary they went to after school club with all the other children whose parents were at work. During working hours you’re meant to be at work / available to do work.
why on earth would the pay you for full time hours if you’re not available every afternoon?

I don’t really understand why this is an issue? For £20k difference in salary use a childminder/after school club!

Take the £75k and log off everyday at 1530. It’s the perfect set-up.

I work somewhere that allows people time for 'school run' in the afternoon. They take it out of their lunch, but it's still really annoying when you're trying to schedule meetings. A lot of people at my place work 8-4, so when you take it into account that some people finish at 4pm and some people are out between 2.30-3.30 for 'school run', and then people often take lunch 1-2, it doesn't leave many options for afternoon meetings.

You can feel miffed, but don't expect anybody else to.

It is not a penalty. You get to choose. Either you sort out after school care and work full time or you take finishing at 3.30 and get paid accordingly. Few jobs at this level would be prepared to let you do that and I would take it. A promotion (so career progression) and working part time/ being able to spend more time with DC for more money than you are on now?

I think you’re utterly unreasonable and it was foreseeable they’d decline that request. Time to step up and wise up. A 95k job wants you available and present
Pay for after school,make adequate childcare plans. Christ on £95k you’re expected to step up, lean in,be available. Finishing at 1530 is a short day, and potentially more work for other colleagues left whilst you’re doing school run and have a child at home

out of interest is this your thread?offered 95k Job but want family friendly terms

What do you mean this would never be a problem for a man?

Are you suggesting if Op was a single father the employers would allow them to pop out to collect the kids? If so yes, that would sexist but I doubt that’s the case. I’m fairly sure they’d decline a single father’s request too.

I’m not sure how you’re getting that she’s been treated as if she’s the same as a man. “Woman” is not interchangeable with “mother” btw. Some women don’t have kids and some men do have kids.

She is being held to the standards of all the employees there including child free coworkers. That may or may not be fair, but I don’t see how it’s treating her like a man.

I think we need to do more to make sure absent fathers pay for their kids and for people with kids in relationships they need to make sure they both pull their weight but I don’t think it’s necessarily the responsibility of workplaces to reduce the work of some mothers because their partners aren’t there/ adequately helping.

It’s not since Covid. I managed one 30 years ago. It was a nightmare, she was completely unreliable and the rest of the team had to carry her. They were beyond pissed off.