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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To stop my son from presenting as Jewish at school

1000 replies

Wonderberry · 13/05/2025 00:52

I really wish this wasn't the case.

My son wants to wear his kippah (skullcap) at school. This is entirely his choice, and something that he has chosen to start wearing recently. He just wants to express his religious and cultural background.

Unfortunately, I don't feel like he would be safe to do so. I hate that this is where we are at currently in the UK, but I know it is the reality. He goes to a community school in London, and doesn't understand why he cannot wear his kippah at school. On cultural days, he also cannot share his culture either.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
CleverButScatty · 14/05/2025 07:41

OP can I ask what risks you feel it will bring?
As I have said upthread I have a step daughter who was physically attacked because of the colour of her skin so I am not at all naive racism and it's consequences. An I understand the fear as a parent of your child being targeted.

However I would think that you escort your child to and from school given his age and that the children are under the supervision of adults at all times.

I think it would be worth approaching the teacher in advance and sharing your concerns. As someone who was previously a teacher I think it would be lovely to explain it's significance etc. And have done similar in the past.

Are you worried other children would tease him? This would be something that should be preempted and tackled by the school.
Are you worried he would be physically attacked? Has this happened at the school before? I would be very concerned about my child attending a primary school where this was happening regardless of religion and other issues.
Are you worried that you and he would be attacked walking to school? Has this happened to other people you know?
Who do you feel poses this risk to him?

I suppose I am just trying to understand what you feel the risk is and how you could take steps to make yourself feel safer about this.

I am assuming you are in a different part of the country to me because this would be a complete non issue where I live, but I know that areas vary greatly.

In terms of his Israeli heritage it's sad that school advised against sharing that but I can understand why. My friends husband is Russian, he is the most mundane bloke with a mundane NHS job and his most exiting hobby is parkrun. But people automatically assume he is pro Putin and suppose of their actions in Ukraine. Half his family live in Ukraine as he is from a border area and that couldn't be further from the truth.

I think they are protecting him from being challenged and questioned about things he doesn't understand yet.

But I really feel that it's worth exploring him wearing his Kippah? It just seems so ordinary in a time where you see people in all manner of religious attire all the time? (Although as I say I know this is area dependent).

DMC1960 · 14/05/2025 08:09

L

Wonderberry · 14/05/2025 08:12

Stripytee · 14/05/2025 07:40

Yes he is. And one where there are a number of Jewish boys and teachers. The school is a pretty safe space, I think the tube and just walking around London is where he is more of a target.

I thought I knew the one from the description and this confirms it. If my boy went there I would feel safe with him wearing his kippah (though probably not on the tube). I'm glad your son has had positive experiences.

OP posts:
BellissimoGecko · 14/05/2025 08:30

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/05/2025 07:33

I wasn't rude, I merely asked if you had read what the OP had written.

This is because you asked why the boy could not wear his kippah and whether the school had explicitly prohibited this. Given that the OP had set out quite clearly in her first post that it was her own decision as to whether or not she should allow her ds to wear the kippah because of her concerns about his safety, I don't think it was unreasonable to question whether you read read this.

The op also said that ‘on cultural days, he cannot share his culture either’, implying that the school has told him that he couldn’t. She didn’t say ‘I don’t feel he can share his culture’; she stated it as a fact. So it was reasonable to find out which was the case.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/05/2025 08:32

BellissimoGecko · 14/05/2025 08:30

The op also said that ‘on cultural days, he cannot share his culture either’, implying that the school has told him that he couldn’t. She didn’t say ‘I don’t feel he can share his culture’; she stated it as a fact. So it was reasonable to find out which was the case.

Yes, that bit was fair enough, but you were asking specifically about why he couldn't wear his kippah, and the OP had addressed that in her OP. It was the whole point of the thread.

PurpleThistle7 · 14/05/2025 08:33

CleverButScatty · 14/05/2025 07:41

OP can I ask what risks you feel it will bring?
As I have said upthread I have a step daughter who was physically attacked because of the colour of her skin so I am not at all naive racism and it's consequences. An I understand the fear as a parent of your child being targeted.

However I would think that you escort your child to and from school given his age and that the children are under the supervision of adults at all times.

I think it would be worth approaching the teacher in advance and sharing your concerns. As someone who was previously a teacher I think it would be lovely to explain it's significance etc. And have done similar in the past.

Are you worried other children would tease him? This would be something that should be preempted and tackled by the school.
Are you worried he would be physically attacked? Has this happened at the school before? I would be very concerned about my child attending a primary school where this was happening regardless of religion and other issues.
Are you worried that you and he would be attacked walking to school? Has this happened to other people you know?
Who do you feel poses this risk to him?

I suppose I am just trying to understand what you feel the risk is and how you could take steps to make yourself feel safer about this.

I am assuming you are in a different part of the country to me because this would be a complete non issue where I live, but I know that areas vary greatly.

In terms of his Israeli heritage it's sad that school advised against sharing that but I can understand why. My friends husband is Russian, he is the most mundane bloke with a mundane NHS job and his most exiting hobby is parkrun. But people automatically assume he is pro Putin and suppose of their actions in Ukraine. Half his family live in Ukraine as he is from a border area and that couldn't be further from the truth.

I think they are protecting him from being challenged and questioned about things he doesn't understand yet.

But I really feel that it's worth exploring him wearing his Kippah? It just seems so ordinary in a time where you see people in all manner of religious attire all the time? (Although as I say I know this is area dependent).

choosing to present as Jewish (for those who have the option) means that you are going into the world as a representative. There is no chance there won’t be something that happens - from annoying to unpleasant to dangerous. It is, at best, exhausting - particularly if you are the only one. There wasn’t a single time I went out into the world with my Jewish star on where ‘something’ didn’t happen - from people asking what you (plural) think about xyz, to asking why you (plural) weren’t doing ‘something’ about Israel to actual threats and unpleasantness.

I am often the only Jewish person someone has knowingly met so am acutely aware that whatever I do I am representing everyone. So many times after someone visits me they say something like ‘I didn’t know Jews did xyz’ (my husband isn’t Jewish so we celebrate his holiday too). I know that if I’m not friendly, or my kids misbehave, in ‘some’ peoples minds they’ll always think ‘Jews aren’t very nice’. I know this because I’ve heard it. Many, many times. So that is a whole additional level of exhaustion on top of just being slightly afraid all the time.

So all I’ve been saying in various ways is that the OP needs to be ready - for anything from
friendly curiosity to intrusive questions to something awful. If she is ready for it then great - we ‘should’ all feel safe to present as we want. But it means signing up for more than just wearing a fun new accessory.

PurpleThistle7 · 14/05/2025 08:34

BellissimoGecko · 14/05/2025 08:30

The op also said that ‘on cultural days, he cannot share his culture either’, implying that the school has told him that he couldn’t. She didn’t say ‘I don’t feel he can share his culture’; she stated it as a fact. So it was reasonable to find out which was the case.

Well. Both. She explains later on. She both was told he couldn’t talk about Israel and ‘also’ feels uncomfortable with him presenting as Jewish.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 14/05/2025 08:34

Wonderberry · 13/05/2025 23:55

To answer why he has been forbidden to share his culture on cultural days: this is tricky. He wanted to talk about his Israeli heritage, but was told this was 'political' and was banned from this. To note, this was entirely his own idea, and I had no idea he had planned to do this.

I was reluctant to disclose he has Israeli heritage (but not nationality), as I thought it would lead to derailment. However, that has already happened.

Regardless of a child's heritage, religion or nationality, they should not face discrimination though. The same applies to adults.

He wanted to talk about his Israeli heritage, but was told this was 'political' and was banned from this.
I find this incredible, how is talking about your Israeli heritage political. I can understand that it is difficult but did you challenge the school on this? I would be fuming.

Regardless of a child's heritage, religion or nationality, they should not face discrimination though. The same applies to adults.
Absolutely agree. Respect and tolerance, treating people with dignity and recognising everyone's value. Sadly massively lacking in todays world.

I hope your little boy continues to walk tall with pride for his faith and heritage

Howldens · 14/05/2025 08:46

Hi @Wonderberry

my son wore his kippah and Star of David necklace to his south London secondary school - unbeknownst to me & his dad. it ended badly & there are SO MANY converging forces here.

Firstly, my son’s dad is Jewish with Israeli heritage (I’m not Jewish), about which my son has historically been very intrigued. And, as my sister who teaches in London secondary PRUs said - one of the “least prestigious” cultural identities in today’s identity orientated world is to be an ordinary white boy. So in a sense it’s not surprising that your son (and mine) want to align to their cultural heritage - it makes them more interesting as teens in a society that’s interested in cultural identity (was a hot topic for the Y6 kids, on TikTok etc).

So, he wore his kippah and necklace to school and became the target for a lot of anti-Semitic abuse. He was subject to Nazi salutes, told to go to a concentration camp and targeted with music that had hitler voicing mein kampf as part of the soundtrack. It went on for about a year.

While I think the abhorrent Israeli genocide in Gaza has surely brought anti semitism to the fore in the U.K. or legitimised it, I’m not sure that is the full picture.

I think for my son’s generation with no real connection to WW2, there’s a LOT of Alt Right content on the internet - (where did the Mein Kampf song come from?). Kanye West who was / is a hero to many of my sons peers (and formerly my son, sadly) has been very vocally anti semitic. There is a known link between public proclamations of anti semitism and attacks sadly - and for my son I believe this played through.

The school were woefully unprepared - we all were. They have a very very mixed demographic so are used to dealing with very very challenging contexts (this is South London not a privileged part) but were blindsided by the way this anti Jewish sentiment exploded around my son.

finally to the person who asked “what do all the other Jewish kids do” - get your head out of your ass, get your mind out of middle England and realise that there are many kids going through difficult experiences in isolation of a wider community to support them.

There is real social change happening in the U.K., a combination of progress and regress whichever side of the populist fence you sit on, and many people struggling within that.

Wonderberry · 14/05/2025 08:57

Regarding the question of what is preventing him from wearing his kippah at school, as I said in my OP it is my worry about safety. The school does not prohibit religious items, and as I said the precedent has been set with a lot of girls wearing Hijabs.

I explained why he cannot share his heritage: this is due to the school preventing him, as they told him he is not allowed to share his Israeli heritage. They didn't say so, but I think they believed he would not be safe should he do so.

OP posts:
Kakeandkake · 14/05/2025 09:01

So the school didn't srrictly forbid him from sharing his Israeli heritage but cautioned against it as they feared the backlash he would recieve?

I don't think the school handled that very well, at his age the teachers should have been able to explain the importance of respecting everyone's heritage to the young impressionable minded children.

Kakeandkake · 14/05/2025 09:01

Strictly*

PurpleThistle7 · 14/05/2025 09:02

Kakeandkake · 14/05/2025 09:01

So the school didn't srrictly forbid him from sharing his Israeli heritage but cautioned against it as they feared the backlash he would recieve?

I don't think the school handled that very well, at his age the teachers should have been able to explain the importance of respecting everyone's heritage to the young impressionable minded children.

No the school ‘did’ prohibit him. They just didn’t say that it was because they felt ill equipped to protect him from the inevitable backlash. He was absolutely not allowed to talk about his Israeli heritage.

Wonderberry · 14/05/2025 09:02

Kakeandkake · 14/05/2025 09:01

So the school didn't srrictly forbid him from sharing his Israeli heritage but cautioned against it as they feared the backlash he would recieve?

I don't think the school handled that very well, at his age the teachers should have been able to explain the importance of respecting everyone's heritage to the young impressionable minded children.

No, they expressly forbade it. I can only surmise that this is the real reason why. There have been overt incidents of Anti-Semitism within the school.

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/05/2025 09:06

Wonderberry · 14/05/2025 09:02

No, they expressly forbade it. I can only surmise that this is the real reason why. There have been overt incidents of Anti-Semitism within the school.

This is such messed up thinking on the part of the school.

If they know that they have a problem with antisemitism, they should be taking proactive steps to address that. Not silencing a little boy who just wants to talk about family history.

MyOliveHelper · 14/05/2025 09:06

Who is from Israel? Has he been there many times?

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/05/2025 09:08

MyOliveHelper · 14/05/2025 09:06

Who is from Israel? Has he been there many times?

Does that even matter? If the Israeli heritage is significant to the child, then he should be free to talk about it regardless.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 14/05/2025 09:11

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/05/2025 09:06

This is such messed up thinking on the part of the school.

If they know that they have a problem with antisemitism, they should be taking proactive steps to address that. Not silencing a little boy who just wants to talk about family history.

100% agree. Schools have to deal with all manner of complicated tough topics all the time, very poor on their part that they lack the skills on how to deal with this. They are primary school kids it is now that they need to be educated properly about different cultures and heritage to offset the rubbish and hate they hear everywhere else. Op I'd would have a lot of issues with the schools inability to deal with this effectively

PurpleThistle7 · 14/05/2025 09:23

MyOliveHelper · 14/05/2025 09:06

Who is from Israel? Has he been there many times?

Weird question

Dangermoo · 14/05/2025 09:27

ScarlettOYara · 14/05/2025 06:59

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c39x0133e2wo
Interesting. Lineker deleted the post after realising what the "rat" stood for. However, you'd think he'd read, reflect and check beforehand? Some people aren't considering antisemitism when they engage with these tropes.

He went down in the estimation of many Tottenham Hotspurs fans when he didn't publicly acknowledge and condem 7/10. Happy to have echoed pro Palestinian rhetoric though. For those who are unaware, he used to play for the club, which of course is well known for its huge Jewish fanbase.

MyOliveHelper · 14/05/2025 09:29

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/05/2025 09:08

Does that even matter? If the Israeli heritage is significant to the child, then he should be free to talk about it regardless.

I'm trying to objectively compare this to my Jamaican heritage.

I'd speak about that at school (or even work) because one of my parents was born there, they both have that heritage, and have travelled their consistently throughout their own lives. They've shared that with their children, and we've shared that with our children.

I could speak extensively about my first hand experiences of being Jamaican-British, Jamaican, Jamaicans, with some reference to how my ancestors came to be in Jamaica (ie Transatlantic Slavery). But the majority of what I'd talk about would be about day to day living - food, language, family dynamics, things like that.

I know that the majority of my ancestry hails from the West African coast via 23andme. I have no lived experiences with those countries. Any cultural practices that existed then, have been morphed through the generations in which we became Caribbean. We can track them, but they've changed somewhat.

A talk in which I gave sharing my African heritage would be very different to one I gave about being Jamaican. It would be political. It would involve talking about parts of history that people either don't know, or find controversial. I think there are many situations this conversation is needed, but at least some situations where it genuinely isn't appropriate.

Does that mean I can't say in passing that I have West African heritage? No. But I can see why a teacher would want to have a very good idea about what I'm going to say if I wanted to present something to the class. Especially if you knew my dad

ExpressCheckout · 14/05/2025 09:35

@Wonderberry He wanted to talk about his Israeli heritage, but was told this was 'political' and was banned from this.

You obviously need to complain.

If you believe this to be a safeguarding issue (and bear in mind they have effectively admitted that he's not safe in their school), then report to your local council's safeguarding team.

If you believe the school has acted illegally, i.e. broken the Public Order Act 1986, the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, etc. then this is a police matter. Call 111 for guidance or speak with a lawyer.

If you believe this to be discrimination/harassment then you should seek advice from the EASS: link here is via government website: https://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/app/home

Also, familiarise yourself with the law on harassment and victimisation: https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/your-rights-under-equality-act-2010/harassment-and-victimisation

I'd like to say also write to your MP but, if you've a Labour MP, then it may be that contacting them would be a waste of your time.

Unfortunately schools often think that the law doesn't seem to apply to them and racism, violence, etc., are allowed to occur in ways that would be unacceptable in an adult workplace.

I'm sorry all of this is happening OP.

Equality Advisory and Support Service

https://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/app/home

Kakeandkake · 14/05/2025 09:36

Wonderberry · 14/05/2025 09:02

No, they expressly forbade it. I can only surmise that this is the real reason why. There have been overt incidents of Anti-Semitism within the school.

Sorry I misunderstood, that's totally unacceptable of the school in this case and quite shocking to hear too.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/05/2025 09:37

MyOliveHelper · 14/05/2025 09:29

I'm trying to objectively compare this to my Jamaican heritage.

I'd speak about that at school (or even work) because one of my parents was born there, they both have that heritage, and have travelled their consistently throughout their own lives. They've shared that with their children, and we've shared that with our children.

I could speak extensively about my first hand experiences of being Jamaican-British, Jamaican, Jamaicans, with some reference to how my ancestors came to be in Jamaica (ie Transatlantic Slavery). But the majority of what I'd talk about would be about day to day living - food, language, family dynamics, things like that.

I know that the majority of my ancestry hails from the West African coast via 23andme. I have no lived experiences with those countries. Any cultural practices that existed then, have been morphed through the generations in which we became Caribbean. We can track them, but they've changed somewhat.

A talk in which I gave sharing my African heritage would be very different to one I gave about being Jamaican. It would be political. It would involve talking about parts of history that people either don't know, or find controversial. I think there are many situations this conversation is needed, but at least some situations where it genuinely isn't appropriate.

Does that mean I can't say in passing that I have West African heritage? No. But I can see why a teacher would want to have a very good idea about what I'm going to say if I wanted to present something to the class. Especially if you knew my dad

OK, I get where you're coming from, but the child in question is 7 years old. He isn't likely to be making a political point! But even if he did, the time to deal with that would surely be at the point when he strayed into saying something that was considered inappropriate. Preemptively banning him from talking about his heritage just in case, or worse, assuming that he will make a political point because that heritage just happens to be Israeli, is totally disproportionate.

Lighteningstrikes · 14/05/2025 09:39

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