To think Starmer is utterly reprehensible

[Thegreyhound]

I know everyone will disagree, that’s ok- But I just have to say that Starmer today seems to have sunk lower than I ever believed he would with his incendiary ‘island of strangers’ and ‘incalculable damage’ rhetoric.
I find it particularly shocking because he has calculated this and decided it’s worth it to throw immigrants under the bus and essentially give all the ground in the debate to Farage, Tommy Robinson and Enoch Powell types.
Policy can be altered without making statements that are designed to impact race relations and make life even more difficult for people who are just trying to get along and make a living here.
Starmer is vile. This country does indeed feel like an island of strangers these days but the strangers are not the immigrants :(

Why? Saying that I've had plenty of people say to me that I shouldn't be here, that I should go home, that I shouldn't have any right to a job here is the plain truth. Plenty of people have a problem with all immigrants. Most people are great. But not all are. I'm definitely not a victim - I've chosen to be here, I'm grateful for it and I feel a sense of responsibility attached to it. Overall I'm ridiculously lucky that my life has turned out as it as - but I'm realistic that there's a subset of the population who think I shouldn't be here.

I'm absolutely not saying that I don't have it easier than a lot of other immigrants, and that far far more people's anti-immigrant (as distinct from anti-immigration) sentiment is rooted in a degree of racism and xenophobia and their treatment is often very horrible. I've had just as many expose their racism by saying they don't mean immigrants like me.

But it's silly for people to make statements that people only have issues with a single racial or religious category of immigrants, which is what I was responding to. I'm super sorry not to have marched in lock step with the acceptable narrative in doing so, though.

How do you feel about spending £6 million a day on mostly economic migrants?

Apols I just realised I should have added more. I agree with you, and I think Starmer’s speech will increase support to Reform.

@JassyRadlett - jealous people will always find something to bully you with, just like at school. It is hardly worth taking notice of.
If we all look carefully many of us will have some immigrants roots somewhere anyway.

So it seems that the government want just the British to be in the UK. Suella agreed with Starmer - that shows that it’s far right rhetoric. Hopefully other countries will benefit from the non British (low to mid pay) workers leaving the U.K. due to not being welcome. Let’s see benefit coddled Brits going out work - that’s not going to happen. Who’s going to do the tough low paid jobs? The politicians perhaps? Once there’s no functioning infrastructure the wealthy foreign workers will choose to work elsewhere.

To be clear, I am not saying I agree or disagree with his latest comment. It's more is spineless, change with wind flip-flopping, his lack of true conviction and integrity, and his willingness to say and do anything for his career and self-promotion. Repugnant.

In London you cannot get by and raise a family on a minimum wage job. It is practically impossible, at least not without a lot of state help.

But aside from that we aren’t being up our children to say that doing care work is a valuable career so of course the children leaving school with all their lovely qualifications don’t want to do minimum wage roles doing a role that we aren’t putting on a pedestal in society.

we need a massive culture change

I’m glad others think this. He really is repugnant.

I thought this had already been dealt with. On the basis those countries can deal with immigrants as they see fit. As should we.

Reform have not won and will not win, when push comes to shove. They will likely mismanage the Councils they have and so Labour needs to take the centre ground and centre right and left. Which the Tories have lost.
Not in a million years will this country vote proper left in this day and age. Look all around you. No other European country is going left. The whole left liberal concept is being obliterated by climate change and mass immigration. Poor unhealthy immigrants beyond a certain age are too expensive when you already have an ageing population. What all European countries need is strong young motivated educated and hard working workers. Who adapt culturally to our norms and are willing to support via taxation the elderly population and our democratic values. It is not that complicated.

Umm. We definitely want British people to be happy in their own country, yes! We want our government to represent our needs and requirements, absolutely.

Can other nationalities come here to work, study and contribute? Yes if they are needed, have real time skills to contribute and are positive, productive members of society.

Can the free loaders arrive here by the thousands for a free house, benefits, health care and education? Absolutely not.

You are making a nuanced situation black and white. The U.K. in order to preserve its future prosperity and living standards must get a grip on this whether you like it or not.

You are seeing the issue from the perspective of someone who has benefited from immigration. Many people feel otherwise and their view and experiences are just as valid.

But that makes no sense though- a huge majority of the British population are decended from immigrants. I don't know anyone I don’t think that doesn’t have at least one line of non Anglo Saxon DNA. so when you say the non-British workers who are you talking about? I’m a third/4th gen British person- I’ve never not been made to feel welcome

Have you actually read any of my posts?

I was half joking about being Schrodinger's immigrant but I think I've been accused of victimhood appropriation, being pro-Reform, racist and now not being aware others' views of immigration within a couple of pages.

So because we have our own paedos and rapists we should import loads more?

Pathetic argument.

There are more British free loaders (able bodied on benefits no education, council housing never worked and often generational unemployment) than “free loaders arriving” I assume you mean illegal arrivals? This needs to be stopped though but isn’t a focus. Why not get able bodied benefit Brits out to work?

Hang on, the English aren't one big homogenous lump either, you know, if this is what you are implying here? I am proud to be a citizen of the UK, but not ashamed to be English either.

Many of us in the North of England absolutely detest the London-centric liberal elite and the culture they impress upon everyone else. We're not racist savages - which is how we are often painted.

Less infighting and a more nuanced understanding of 'England' or, rather, the many 'Englands' that exist, would be more helpful here. If we share a common enemy then it's London/SE culture and politics.

I’m replying based on Starmer’s speech. Seems to be a stirring of anti British feeling.

I don’t care just don’t use our benefits system. Nearly half of social housing in London being headed by first generation migrants. Imagine that increasing and happening to all councils in the UK. I’m fine I can help my child on the property ladder. What I don’t understand is dogooders who can’t afford to the do the same are perfectly happy to import poor uneducated people and call folk racist if they point out we won’t be very wealthy if we keep this up. The rich will leave the country, the young and bright will leave and you’ll be left with the lazy whingers demanding more hand outs. It’s unsustainable, fine for the people who’ve got money to leave this country. It’s pretty obvious this country will go down the pan if we don’t take control of our borders.

If half of first generation migrants are in social housing it shows they fit the criteria for a council house and aren’t Engineers and Drs and more likely have several kids and Dad does 16 hours a week as an Uber driver and Mum doesn’t work so they can max benefits. It’s what they do.

May be if you claim universal credit Mum and Dad should work like single parents are expected to. That will cause a fuss in certain communities.

He uses the phrase that “without rules we risk becoming an island of strangers” when talking about border control. I hats wrong with that?

Fair point, totally agree it’s not a job that’s all about just what you think. But most prime ministers in the past, I’d feel I have some sense of them as a person, the issues they really care about. I don’t even get the sense he is especially passionate about the justice system or issues connected to his previous career.

He just comes across as having zero character or personality and I want to have someone leading the country who is guided by a sense of principles I can understand. I’m not saying we’ve had that in recent years, and certainly not saying we’ve had that from Tory prime ministers! But even most of those, I feel I can see where there beliefs lie. To me, with Starmer, his beliefs could be anything. He just says what he thinks he’s supposed to say. You’re right that vacuous is the wrong word, I don’t think he’s unintelligent but I meant empty, devoid of any substance. He feels like some kind of AI hologram.

If you could show me the crime stats for those cities and compare the way crime is reported and recorded in the four cities mentioned I could maybe have a think about it.

Those cities have pretty robust law enforcement and if people went around snatching phones in Seoul they’d be dealt with quickly.
Unlike in London where it’s the fault of the phone owner for not keeping it hidden, or as you say, inequality.

Well we are a majority British country still so that is not a surprise.

Getting British nationals into work is a different issue from stopping people coming in who cannot support themselves.