To think Starmer is utterly reprehensible

[Thegreyhound]

I know everyone will disagree, that’s ok- But I just have to say that Starmer today seems to have sunk lower than I ever believed he would with his incendiary ‘island of strangers’ and ‘incalculable damage’ rhetoric.
I find it particularly shocking because he has calculated this and decided it’s worth it to throw immigrants under the bus and essentially give all the ground in the debate to Farage, Tommy Robinson and Enoch Powell types.
Policy can be altered without making statements that are designed to impact race relations and make life even more difficult for people who are just trying to get along and make a living here.
Starmer is vile. This country does indeed feel like an island of strangers these days but the strangers are not the immigrants :(

Given the other thread I'm on right now, where British Jews are describing experiences of antisemitic discrimination, harassment and attacks in recent times, including from white British people, I think "nobody" is probably being quite generous there.

Accidentally voted YANBU. I meant a firm YABU. I have been harassed on the train before for having my hair on show or not being dressed “modestly”. I cannot walk alone at night. I fear for my daughter everyday.

Well check the crime statistics if you like. They show that you're more likely to be a victim of crime in the rest of England and Wales.

We all know that while there are undoubtedly white British people who are antisemitic, the recent surge in antisemitism across Europe is linked to a different demographic and the importation of religious conflict that has nothing to do with us

If you could show me the crime stats for those cities and compare the way crime is reported and recorded in the four cities mentioned I could maybe have a think about it?

We need to stop assisting though! No more interpreters, benefits or free housing and a swift efficient process for turning around the hundreds of men illegally landing on our shores every single day.

Leaving apart the fact you've dismissed anti semitism and Brexit at a stroke, I think you're suggesting, without actually saying, that the problem is Muslim migrants.

That he used the votes of leftists to get into power and immediately started pandering to far right Reform voters is absolutely reprehensible. I’ll never vote Labour again and feel utterly betrayed. Starmer has major ‘pick me’ desperation vibes. It’s pathetic that he so easily abandons his party’s principles to chase the votes of people who will probably never vote for them anyway. If it was closer to a general election I’d understand (though still revile) these tactics a little more, but why is he so desperate to woo the far right less than a year after being elected? Disgusting.

Yes obviously we need to have a much stronger and swifter response to economic migrants that are here for a free ride - absolutely. But for those that have been given a right to remain and are now here already, we have a moral duty to help them fully integrate, house them safely and expect them to be productive.

The reset is long overdue. Now pressing and urgent.

You’re happy with current levels of migration then?

That's an incredibly naive way of thinking, I'm sorry. Two years is a huge amount of time in business cycles, academic endeavours, scientific research. Investment of all kinds craves certainty - that sort of approach would create the opposite conditions.

The trouble with the supply and demand argument you make around industries such as care is that you've got private profit-making providers partly (but not wholly) funded by the state and providing a necessary public good. So basic economic theory doesn't apply - and the period of adjustment to recalibrate and reskill isn't that fast, private providers would logically close rather than run a loss-making enterprise, and public harm could eventuate. That's in just one sector.

Like I say, I agree that the economy has become hooked on lower-skilled immigration to the detriment of the domestic workforce. But overly simplistic headlines translated into overly simplistic policies are likely to cause significant harm.

YANBU OP, it's utterly depressing.

It's an old fashioned view of the electorate also.

One thing people value these days is leaders with authenticity, regardless of their views. Trump got lots of votes on this basis. He's not towing a party line or hiding behind politician speak. He says what he means (the fact it verges from utter nonsense to dangerously inflammatory rhetoric not withstanding).

Starmer chasing racist votes won't win him the election. He's not going to be able to out-racist the racists and he should have enough principles not to try. It's shameful that he doesn't.

We need a Labour leader who knows how to put their heart on their sleeve and inspire people. Labour is sunk with Starmer at the helm.

I really fear for the future with the rise of the far right.

If he properly tackled the boats he would win back the electorate tomorrow.

So you don’t think he has been advised by the civil service of the catastrophic consequences of uncontrolled immigration? Looked at the forecasts, and the projected forecasts and come to the decision that the country needs to take stronger action?

It is quite staggering that you can not see the root issue here at play, and refuse to acknowledge the million or so canaries screaming in the coal mine.

The issue with the boats is that without proper French cooperation there is no way to stop them. And that would involve the French having to take some responsibility for the situation. The number coming in by boat is a tiny % and is exaggerated by the right wing press because it gets outrage and clicks.

Has anyone actually realised that mass higher education has maybe led to less working class values? And will be even less in the future? Have some of you maybe also realised that it’s the poorer immigrant class that gained British citizenship that may be voting Reform? And hence the changes?

I know of colleagues who have had arranged marriages where the woman effectively spoke to their partner for 2 hours prior to marriage. The families obviously talked to arranged the marriage.

It is is customs like this where it is difficult to understand with western liberal values we take for granted. You have to ask the question whether this form of marriage should become commonplace and not questioned for potential coercion or female subjugation due to an increasing reluctance to question other cultures.

It ok s scenarios like this that show the gulf of cultural experience that is emerging and common understanding of concepts of dating and freedom of partner choice fade.

This is just an example of where we have to be protective of a value set though not perfect does have great advantages over other less free societies and cuktures.

I think that has been explored by the conservatives in government, and the navy idea was considered a non starter. France could stop the boats tomorrow but they choose not to, despite the many millions they are paid to do so.

It's great that we all know that, and I'm sure British Jews are particularly comforted by the fact that we all know that the white supremacists attacking them are only doing it because of the Muslim immigrants.

Meanwhile, quite a few of my European neighbours fucked off home after Brexit because they were told many times to "fuck off home", and so they did.

Plenty of people have problems with any of us who are immigrants.

Are you Jewish? Because if not, you're being both condescending and uninformed. I'd like you to stop doing that.

Are you upset about Muslims?

If Western developed nations do not do something about immigration then the move to the right will be immense. Not Farage levels of anti immigration, proper boots on the ground border guards chucking people in to detention centres. Real far right stuff. Poland stop asylum seekers with border patrols at the Belorussian border right now. They risk being fined by the EU.

The left and liberal thinking have made a huge error and it has played in to the hands of the far right but this is only going to get worse. I can see other countries following Poland, maybe not right now but unless people see substantial change then in the near future. I can even see a time when nations attempt to change the 1951 agreement on refugees or leave that agreement entirely.

@CantStopMoving same here, my heritage isn’t white so even though my Dad anglicised the spelling of our name it is obvious that our ancestors aren’t exactly Anglo Saxon.

I’d still give it a go! 😀

Come back to me when you can read a post properly: "the white supremacists attacking them are only doing it because of the Muslim immigrants" = deliberate misread

It's not press exaggeration when you live in a small town where some of these men are being placed and promptly filming children in parks.

Where parents are setting up 'park patrol' groups because the police, local MP or Home Office are doing nothing

The outrage and tension is very real.