Page 21 | To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

Pepperpotladles · 2025-05-12T16:47:17+00:00

I did not know this! I have obviously been living under a rock. So today someone told me that if kids get grades 1, 2 or 3 in their maths GCSE, it is compulsory that all these kids have to keep on studying GCSE maths until they achieve a grade 4 or above, and they have to keep trying to achieve this up until their 25th birthday. Is this true?!? I can't believe my ears. What about kids who simply can't achieve grade 4 or above in maths, for any number of reasons?

cakeorwine · 16/05/2025 19:57

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 08:16

@cakeorwine so even if your child does GCSE maths, you don’t think it is important to know whether paper one is a non-calculator paper (AQA or Edexcel) or calculator paper (OCR)? You don’t think that is a significant difference that will influence preparation? We will have to agree to disagree on that!

There are some state special schools who sit IGCSE (not always in maths but in other subjects), and since the thread includes discussing DC with SEN, there will be some DC the thread is relevant to who attend state schools but sit IGCSE. And not all pupils attend a state school.

"so even if your child does GCSE maths, you don’t think it is important to know whether paper one is a non-calculator paper (AQA or Edexcel) or calculator paper (OCR)? You don’t think that is a significant difference that will influence preparation? We will have to agree to disagree on that!"

We will have to agree that you didn't read what I said.

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 20:01

and read what I said.

I read exactly what you posted. I think you are the one who needs to read both what you said and what I said.

I didn’t say there were differences between the content of the overall specifications, just that there were differences.

The post of mine you quoted was about whether it was important. You clearly felt the need to respond to that post highlighting what you did. Not sure why you would do that if you felt knowing was important.

I said that there is little difference between the GCSE specifications except clearly one of them has a Paper 1 which is non calculator and another is calculator first.

No you didn’t. You didn’t mention paper 1s being calculator vs non calculator. I did that. Try reading what you wrote rather than telling me to read it.

You are wrong about WJEC Equdas. It can be sat in England.

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 20:04

cakeorwine · 16/05/2025 05:53

You should know if your child is doing IGCSE or not. But State Schools in England do GCSEs.

Do you think the maths contents for the GCSE Maths specification is different between OCR,AQA abd Edexcel

The subject content of this specification matches that set out in the Department for Education’s Mathematics GCSE subject content and assessment objectives document. This content is common to all exam boards.
The content has been organised into broad topic areas and given a reference as follows:

Number references start with N
Algebra references start with A
Ratio, proportion and rates of change references start with R
Geometry and measures references start with G
Probability references start with P
Statistics references start with S.

All content can be assessed on any of the three question papers. As such, some questions will draw together elements of maths from different topic areas. The weighting of the topic areas has been prescribed by Ofqual and is common to all exam boards. The table below shows the approximate weightings of the topic areas for the overall tier of assessment, not for each individual question paper.

https://qualifications.pearson.com/content/dam/pdf/GCSE/mathematics/2015/specification-and-sample-assesment/gcse-maths-2015-specification.pdf

https://www.ocr.org.uk/Images/168982-specification-gcse-mathematics.pdf

https://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/mathematics/gcse/mathematics-8300/specification/subject-content

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Here is the post you posted this morning. Can you point out where you said “except clearly one of them has a Paper 1 which is non calculator and another is calculator first.”

cakeorwine · 16/05/2025 20:38

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 20:01

and read what I said.

I read exactly what you posted. I think you are the one who needs to read both what you said and what I said.

I didn’t say there were differences between the content of the overall specifications, just that there were differences.

The post of mine you quoted was about whether it was important. You clearly felt the need to respond to that post highlighting what you did. Not sure why you would do that if you felt knowing was important.

I said that there is little difference between the GCSE specifications except clearly one of them has a Paper 1 which is non calculator and another is calculator first.

No you didn’t. You didn’t mention paper 1s being calculator vs non calculator. I did that. Try reading what you wrote rather than telling me to read it.

You are wrong about WJEC Equdas. It can be sat in England.

My post was

"You should know if your child is doing IGCSE or not. But State Schools in England do GCSEs.
Do you think the maths contents for the GCSE Maths specification is different between OCR,AQA abd Edexcel"

As your comment mentioned IGCSEs which are clearly very different to GCSEs. And no comment about me saying it was not important to know whether it was a calculator or non calculator. In fact, I didn't mention the word "Important" so I am puzzled as to your inference there.

cakeorwine · 16/05/2025 20:42

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 20:04

Here is the post you posted this morning. Can you point out where you said “except clearly one of them has a Paper 1 which is non calculator and another is calculator first.”

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My quote

"I said that there is little difference between the GCSE specifications except clearly one of them has a Paper 1 which is non calculator and another is calculator first.
Other than that, GCSE maths is GCSE maths."

My comment is that there is little difference between the GCSE specifications. Which is what I said this morning

The "except bit" is me adding information in this quote - that some of them have Paper 1 as non calculator and others don't.

(Which is not information I gave this morning )

cakeorwine · 16/05/2025 20:43

"You are wrong about WJEC Equdas. It can be sat in England."

Which is why I deleted the comment.

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 20:44

The whole conversation exchange last night was about if it is important to know the board your (a general your, not your DC specifically) DC is sitting because of the differences. That was what the conversation was about. You were the one who quoted my post from the conversation about importance. If you wanted to talk about something unrelated it is strange you felt the need to quote my post.

The fact you felt the need to then incorrectly claim you should know if your child is doing IGCSE but if in state schools it is GCSE and to ask me if I thought the content of the specification of a whole was different when that isn’t what I said, and explain about Ofqual regulation which I had already acknowledged implied, whether you intended to or not, you didn’t think it was important to know because all GCSE maths boards are regulated by Ofqual.

Some DC sit IGCSE so yes I mentioned them. I didn’t say they were they same as GCSEs.

cakeorwine · 16/05/2025 20:56

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 20:44

The whole conversation exchange last night was about if it is important to know the board your (a general your, not your DC specifically) DC is sitting because of the differences. That was what the conversation was about. You were the one who quoted my post from the conversation about importance. If you wanted to talk about something unrelated it is strange you felt the need to quote my post.

The fact you felt the need to then incorrectly claim you should know if your child is doing IGCSE but if in state schools it is GCSE and to ask me if I thought the content of the specification of a whole was different when that isn’t what I said, and explain about Ofqual regulation which I had already acknowledged implied, whether you intended to or not, you didn’t think it was important to know because all GCSE maths boards are regulated by Ofqual.

Some DC sit IGCSE so yes I mentioned them. I didn’t say they were they same as GCSEs.

"you don’t think it is important to know whether paper one is a non-calculator paper (AQA or Edexcel) or calculator paper (OCR)? You don’t think that is a significant difference that will influence preparation? We will have to agree to disagree on that!"

And guess what, a parent might not know that it is AQA or EdExcel but they should know if it is a calculator or non calculator. And they can know that even without knowing the exam board.

cakeorwine · 16/05/2025 20:57

"The fact you felt the need to then incorrectly claim you should know if your child is doing IGCSE but if in state schools it is GCSE"

You should know if your child is doing GCSE or IGCSE,

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 20:59

But, as I mentioned, there are some in state schools who sit IGCSE. That is what was incorrect.

Should know about calculator/non-calculator and IGCSE vs GCSE. Sadly, not all do.

There are other differences too. Such as the style of question Teen mentioned and the number of papers I mentioned.

cakeorwine · 16/05/2025 21:10

"There are other differences too. Such as the style of question Teen mentioned and the number of papers I mentioned."

But fundamentallly, maths is maths and schools in England doing GCSE maths have the same maths specification to do.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7cb5b040f0b6629523b52c/GCSE_mathematics_subject_content_and_assessment_objectives.pdf

Question styles might vary - although not much with AQA, OCR and EdExcel.

And if we bring it back to the topic of revision books, then a GCSE Maths revision book (Foundation or Higher) should be fine even if it's not board specific - as it will cover the maths being tested in the papers.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7cb5b040f0b6629523b52c/GCSE_mathematics_subject_content_and_assessment_objectives.pdf

perpetualplatespinning · 16/05/2025 21:16

The differences in styles can be significant for some DC (just look at the posts about DC being upset saying how yesterday’s Edexcel higher paper was different), particularly some DC with SEN. Brilliant if that isn’t relevant to you. It is to some. As others have explained on the thread, maths papers aren’t just maths. Again, especially for some DC with SEN. And my posts included past papers and other resources as well as revision guides.

DaisyDukesAuntie · 16/05/2025 22:10

well I don’t know about the mandatory retake part, but I do know that 4 and above is a pass and anything less isn’t. Same for English. I looked it up as I am concerned my son might not pass his English GCSE this year.

noblegiraffe · 16/05/2025 22:43

DaisyDukesAuntie · 16/05/2025 22:10

well I don’t know about the mandatory retake part, but I do know that 4 and above is a pass and anything less isn’t. Same for English. I looked it up as I am concerned my son might not pass his English GCSE this year.

That's not true. A 4 and above is a level 2 pass, a 1, 2 or 3 are a level 1 pass. A U is the only fail grade.

x2boys · 16/05/2025 22:49

noblegiraffe · 16/05/2025 22:43

That's not true. A 4 and above is a level 2 pass, a 1, 2 or 3 are a level 1 pass. A U is the only fail grade.

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That's true but in reality.it means nothing to get on most courses or apprenticeship kids still need a four in English and maths
Even back in the day and I did my GCSE,s in 1990 we were very aware that anything below C whilst technically a pass wouldn't be counted for further progression so was a fail in all but name.

noblegiraffe · 16/05/2025 22:52

It's equivalent to a CSE and no one said they were a failed O-level.

TheOriginalEmu · 16/05/2025 22:55

Ddakji · 12/05/2025 17:56

The pass rate (ie to get a grade 4) is incredibly low in maths, something like 19% so if a child can’t get that they’re going to struggle in life.

There are many many people who don’t achieve a grade C in maths who manage just fine in life. I don’t have a maths gcse grade C and I have professional job and am pretty good at it. I run my own business at the same time and again it does just fine.

x2boys · 16/05/2025 23:28

TheOriginalEmu · 16/05/2025 22:55

There are many many people who don’t achieve a grade C in maths who manage just fine in life. I don’t have a maths gcse grade C and I have professional job and am pretty good at it. I run my own business at the same time and again it does just fine.

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Yes I dont.have a grade c in Maths and was fine
But that was 30+ years and these days practically everything requests grade four in Maths and English

Introvert80 · 18/05/2025 16:57

.

Ghsvdf · 18/05/2025 18:17

NoHardSelling · 14/05/2025 22:44

I am cringeing for you with your posts. Passing a maths exam requires so many different skills, and people’s brains are wired differently. There are also complicating factors like focus and concentration, social factors, stamina, confidence etc. I am astonished an adult doesn’t know this.

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But like with a bit of hard work, dedication and strategic preparation you can overcome these challenges and scrape a pass ?

TeenToTwenties · 18/05/2025 18:21

Ghsvdf · 18/05/2025 18:17

But like with a bit of hard work, dedication and strategic preparation you can overcome these challenges and scrape a pass ?

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. because it isn't as easy for some as you think
. because maths is a lot about confidence and if you fail once it makes your confidence even lower
. because other people telling them it is easy and if only they had a bit of hard work and dedication and strategic preparation they would pass makes them feel stupid and lowers their confidence even more
. because students are having to prepare for a bunch of other GCSEs at the same time so can't just focus on maths, or are doing assignments for college courses, or working
. because some people may not have diagnosed SEN but still have difficulties

TasWair · 18/05/2025 18:22

CatHairEveryWhereNow · 16/05/2025 08:47

WJEC is the welsh board and despite still having GCSE we have letters still A*-G not the English system of numbers.

When DH and I sat our GCSE back in the day and niece few years ago in England schools sat with dfifferent exam boards for different subjects - the schools pick the exam boards for each subject.

In Wales unless private all it all the same exam board - WJEC.

English Lit and History - will have clear differences in syllabus- science and maths less so but there can be minor differnces in topics covered.

I was always bemused the local bookshops had exam guides for other boards and then wonder why they didn't sell.

Maths in Wales GCSE level we haven't bought books as there both the WJEC question bank full of past questions and topics and a website somone set up with https://www.mathsdiy.com/ with topic booklets and past papers and worked answers.

It's been very hard to find any text books for WJEC further maths A-level- as while there similarities with other boards there are huge differnces according to his maths and further maths teachers.

There is no one board that RG uni accept most of they are all assumed to be equivalent levels if with different sylabuses and areas covered - plus scottish education system is completely different and Uni are all use to taking many different qualifications as they take different countries students.

How important study guides are depends on teaching and school - they were vital for DS with really disrupted teaching and vitually no notes to revise from and with a few learning issues - they are not as vital for DD2 same school few years later as the teaching been more consistent and revsions guidance existing this year - though she still does past papers at home as well as school ie in addition to homework and exams styles questions in the revision guides.

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Thank you so much for sharing this @CatHairEveryWhereNow - it's so useful to us! Diolch 💐

RampantIvy · 18/05/2025 18:25

Ghsvdf · 18/05/2025 18:17

But like with a bit of hard work, dedication and strategic preparation you can overcome these challenges and scrape a pass ?

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Well some teenagers clearly can't, can they

My friend's DC is dyslexic and has taken maths GCSE several times and just can't pass it because he doesn't understand the questions in spite of trying really hard.

TeenToTwenties · 18/05/2025 18:28

@RampantIvy Exactly. My DD was doing a practice question the other day, and couldn't get her head round 'the value of the 1p coins is the same as the value of the 2p coins'. 1p and 2p are different values she said.

x2boys · 18/05/2025 18:36

Ghsvdf · 18/05/2025 18:17

But like with a bit of hard work, dedication and strategic preparation you can overcome these challenges and scrape a pass ?

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Why do you keep posting nonsense ?
It doesnt matter ho hard some kids work ,they just dont get it.