To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

[Pepperpotladles]

I did not know this!
I have obviously been living under a rock.
So today someone told me that if kids get grades 1, 2 or 3 in their maths GCSE, it is compulsory that all these kids have to keep on studying GCSE maths until they achieve a grade 4 or above, and they have to keep trying to achieve this up until their 25th birthday.
Is this true?!?
I can't believe my ears.
What about kids who simply can't achieve grade 4 or above in maths, for any number of reasons?

It not compulsory to keep re-taking them at all.
However if a teen wants to do a college course or an apprenticeship they (the college /employer) may insist on English and Maths being done along side their other subjects/qualifications.
If they aren't doing college/6th form/apprenticeship then they don't have to look at a GCSE Maths or English exam ever again in their life if they don't want to.

@HowDoesThatLook totally agree. My brother has mild learning difficulties and would never pass either English or Maths exams. However, he can still be a productive member of society doing those jobs lots of mumsnetters would probably sneer at, but society still needs, whether it's as a dishwasher in a pub, collecting trolleys in a supermarket or stacking shelves.

I will let you know, but my eldest is no issue as he’s top set and wanting to do at A Level. My youngest is SEN and struggles with maths, which is why we’ve done lots of extra support for maths (SATs this week), and it’ll be no different in high school.

One does have SEN, nothing wrong with having aspirations, you dont need to look for offense.

Not entirely true. Up to when they leave college / school in the July after they turn 18, but there is a lot of funding for them to have another go if they haven’t yet passed. Not having it closed the door to so many jobs that it’s important to offer that.

We didn't know this until DS started college with a 3 in English. To continue in education yes they must keep attempting to pass the one they didn't get. The college literally doesn't get funding for that YP unless they are also studying the Maths or English retake. They don't have to PASS it, but they have to keep doing the lessons.

There is a scale of resits: if they just miss a 4 by getting a 3 they have to resit GCSE, if they get a 2 or less they can do Functional Skills (GCSE 4 equivalent).

There are lots of reasons not all students get a pass mark: for a start, the grade boundaries guarantee a percentage will fail. It can be to do with exam technique / anxiety or dysgraphia rather than not being able to read at all. The GCSE exam content is quite advanced/abstract, functional skills is more relatable. DS can read and write extremely well but for his first few GCSE resits he had panic attacks and wrote nothing, and then got a 3 again in the last attempt 😟.

The age 25 might be for students with an EHCP, otherwise it's 19 after which they are eligible for adult education courses if they want to.

I didn’t know that about the different pass rates - thanks! I was utterly stunned when DD got 19% in an end of year exam (Yr 8, I think) and we were told that was a pass.

Utterly mad that the system is set up for a third to fail.

Yes but a 1/3 will still fail. Many parents try and offer support and tutoring by the system is still designed to have that number fail.

I'm really not sure that's true. Can you link? I've just googled and it's 40-60% apparently.

Sorry, but saying 'a cold day in hell when you 'let' you child leave secondary' is somewhat implying that parents whose children don't pass haven't put enough effort in to helping / encouraging / enforcing or whatever. You can have all the aspirations you want, but sometimes it still isn't enough.

Well.good luck with that luck
unfortunately my now 18 year old nearly died when he was in year 11 and missed an entire half term of school due to.being in intensive care
so funnily enough I was rather more concerned about my sons recovery than him.getting the required grades fours he's still.trying to play catch up now.

OK, I can’t edit my post so can everyone stop telling me that the pass mark/percenrage for foundational maths is higher than I said?! Apologies for my error, but I don’t need it pointing out multiple times!

Foundation tier, pass score percentage is around 55-60%. Higher tier it is ?18-25%?.

Pass rate is set at ~65-70%, ie around 1/3rd are doomed to fail before they even pick up their pen.

Extra help given here in bucket loads since y4, not sure what more we or he could be doing. Reality is that he will very likely not get a 4. Still,
enjoy your smug superiority, it may or may not do any good.

They keep trying and learning and perhaps take functional skills at some point to get a level 2 equivalent. I work with unemployed people and at any age I would encourage studying maths and English if they don't have a grade 4 equivalent. If they do have severe special needs then obviously this is different.

Barring extreme learning difficulties and SEN how hard is it to get a 4 and to scrape a pass?

Like honestly.

My DS got a 9 the first year they ever did 9-1 for maths.

Sadly I do know. I have a dyslexic teen sitting her GCSEs this year. Maths and English are her weakest subjects.

I've been helping her revise for her Eng exams and looking through her books (and presumably her exam will be the same too) is a not a fair reflection of her intelligence or strengths. She reads well, is articulate, is confident speaking before her peers and adults, great at science. I could go on.

30% of our children will fail, there's not even a pass mark - how is that fair?

Finland have it right, no exams, just a grading from the teachers who know the children over the course of a year or two.

Well.clearly you have a very bright son ,
So how can you not know that not all children we be equally as bright and some may indeed struggle to get a four ?

Given no matter what 1/3 won’t pass maths and a 1/3 won’t pass English pretty high

a 9 shows that (like my eldest) he is naturally gifted at maths. Mine has done no maths revision at all (and won’t) and still gets 98% on calculator papers because it makes sense to her. Like it does me and DH. Becuase we are lucky.

Another “my children are so clever” poster. This smuggery and faux not understanding why all parents aren’t as good at producing such good offspring really is tiresome.

Thank you for the clear and concise explanation.

It doesn't make the posters look.very bright themselves if they don't understand everyone is different and some struggle academically,does it?

It is compulsory and some college's don't offer functional skills, my friends daughter has had this problem with English. As the college she is at doesn't do functional skills.

I do think that if they fail it a second time then functional skills is a better option. But it depends on the college you are at. And yes they do resist it alongside what ever course they are doing. It doesn't stop them doing a course but they wouldn't be able to do A-levels.

Yup. My dd is 22, she's in college doing construction. She's been redoing her Maths since she first sat it in 2019! She's dyslexic and honestly I don't think she's ever going to get about the grade 2 that's she's being consistently getting since 2019.

It's so obvious the whole system was designed by people who think like this. The less academic kids, who need all the help they can get, should be at least be double entered in functional skills at 16 IMO, rather than being set up to "fail" their most important baseline qualification.