Airplane drama!

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DD is a month shy of 4, and we’re flying into California for a hiking/camping trip. The flight is 5 hours, and we booked the cheapest one we could. Naturally, the space between rows of seating are insanely small (that’s what I get for scrimping, I suppose), and DD is at an awkward height where the edge of the seat is hitting her upper/mid calf, so her feet are forced outwards if she’s not sitting closer to the edge so that her knees can bend (if that makes sense?) She’s also inherited my boat feet, so the ends of her shoes are literally a couple centimeters from the seat in front of her.

She was having a hard time getting comfortable in her seat for take off, and every time she went to adjust herself, her feet moved and touched the seat in front of her. Not like, intentionally full force kicking the seat or anything (which I’ve definitely experienced in the past. I’m not sure a car seat would have helped with distancing her from it, either.) She also just fidgets a lot because, y’know, she’s a child. The woman sitting in it (I’m thinking she had to be in her late 40s, maybe 50s) turned around and directly told my daughter to stop kicking her seat. I reiterated to DD to sit still and try to keep her feet to herself.

She was struggling to do that, so I tried to have her lie down with her feet on my lap (it’s an early flight; she should be sleeping anyhow), but the flight attendant came by to say she needed to be sitting upright and facing forward for take off, so I put her back to where she was. A few minutes later, the woman turns around again and loudly snaps (almost shouting) “Stop kicking my seat! This is the last time I’m telling you!” Which, idk seems kind of like a threat ? I certainly would have spoken to the parent, not the child, and used different words, or involved the flight attendant if I was so bothered by something s/he was doing. And I know it’s certainly annoying to have someone touching your seat, and I was (audibly, I think) doing my best to keep that from happening. I apologized to the woman and kept trying to keep DD still.

A few minutes go by, and we’re about to start taxiing to the runway, and DD starts whining that she’s thirsty. (Me being a dummy dumb dumb, I left our drinks from the airport in the carry on I stowed) I told her they’ll bring us something to drink in a bit, once we’re in the air. I honestly think DD was being pretty patient, but she is tired, and started to cry after a while. (Full tears, definitely noisy, but not like, throwing a fit or anything.) I was desperately trying to get her headphones synched to my phone and a YouTube video pulled up in order to distract her. The fidgeting continued, of course.

The woman in front of us (WIFOU) started cursing in both English and Spanish (not turned around again, but definitely directed at us), saying things like “Shut the fuck up!”, “Son of a bitch! Make her stop!” “ And “I’m about to fucking develop Tourette’s!” Which I was aghast to hear in a cabin with lots of children in earshot, and also thought was pretty insensitive to people who actually have Tourette’s.. Her partner made comments about how it’s going to be a long flight and they weren’t going to get any sleep.

The swearing only made DD cry more. I didn’t say anything to them, but just kept working on quieting her down. Used bribes snacks, threats consequences, distractions, and promises, and eventually succeeded. Course, soon as mine stopped, another child started having a tantrum behind us. This elicited “Knock that thing out with some fucking drugs!” from WIFOU. I was surprised the flight attendant (FA) didn’t say anything to her about it. I thought, maybe she should be the one knocking herself out with drugs, but kept that to myself.

By twenty minutes into the flight, WIFOU and her partner had asked three times to be moved, but the only available seats were “upgraded” to be more comfortable and spacious, and cost an additional £60 each, and they refused to pay. The third time, the FA checked in with DD and I and gave me an obligatory “Can you have her stop kicking? I know she’s a child…” I told her “We’re trying,” and she nodded understandingly and went back to her duties.

The fourth time they asked to be moved/upgraded, they were getting irate. FA looked embarrassed to have to insist they pay for the better seats. I interjected and suggested that the couple switch rows with DD and I, so that at least she wouldn’t be behind them. This irritated the people sitting in the aisle seats, who had to get up to allow us to shuffle around, but it at least stopped their complaining. I was worried DD was going to piss off our new neighbors ahead, but thankfully it was a little boy sitting in front of DD, and he didn’t seem to notice
DD’s wiggling about… I finally just got her to sleep, 2.5 hours in.

I think next time we will either cough up the funds for more spacious seating or just fly via a different airline… But honestly, I see airplanes as just another form of public transportation that’s gonna have crying and fidgety kids on it, with parents ranging from desperately trying to keep their littles polite and unassuming, to entitled parents who think it’s their kids’ right to run wild and do as they please... If I didn’t want to hear or feel them, I’d probably wear my hearing protection I use for my job, and purchase the seat behind me. Usually I just put up with it, since I empathize. I don’t think children should have to miss out on traveling before they’re fully developed, either.

What’s your opinion?

To be fair I would have thought a kid kicking the seat was a little shit before I had them, then I flew this weekend with my 3 year old and they were the exact wrong height and when they say their feet stuck right out and hit the seat. Any time she moved at all her shoes would bang against the seat, but at no point was she purposely kicking it. I had to take her shoes off and take all the tat out of the seat pocket to try and reduce the annoyance.

I’ve also flown on my own a lot with them and once a woman complained loudly and asked to be move before take off just because she seen me with a baby sat behind her. Some people are just arseholes no matter what you do.

Sofiewoo · Today 08:09

...once a woman complained loudly and asked to be move before take off just because she seen me with a baby sat behind her. Some people are just arseholes no matter what you do.

Thing is, nobody knows what some people are going through at any time. It could be that they are in extreme pain or very stressed, travelling to the deathbed of a loved one, or have been sleepless for many nights owing to financial or marital or psychological issues. Anyone kicking their seat could be the last straw.

No one kicked her seat, she asked to move because she seen me with a baby. “I need to move because of that baby” she barked to the flight attendant.

I was travelling on my own with a 2 month old to a funeral so frankly I don’t give a shit what someone else is going through when they outwardly cnty to someone else. It’s no excuse.

I kinda lost any sympathy for you when I got to the part where you hadn't even taken offl

Its not whataboutery.

If you are going to cry about emissions of transport because of bullshit climate change, then the issue of aviation is far less damaging than road transport methods

But of course, we have established that you dont like facts.

Wonder if your woke coffee beans were flown in or came via road transport...either way, it will have damaged the fucking environment 😂🤦‍♂️🙄😂

No one kicked her seat, she asked to move because she seen me with a baby. “I need to move because of that baby” she barked to the flight attendant.
I was travelling on my own with a 2 month old to a funeral so frankly I don’t give a shit what someone else is going through when they outwardly cnty to someone else. It’s no excuse.

I was referring to your comment "Some people are just arseholes no matter what you do."

Which is true.

Probably not, as I'd be speaking directly to the child of the incapable parent.

This is what I did recently with my son who, whilst older, has ADHD. Gave him space to fidget with no worries. You can have the seats in window and middle on the right (as you sit in them) with kids. I’ve always done this when I’ve been just myself and one kid because I am very claustrophobic, and can’t handle any other middle seat, whilst my son benefits from being by the window.

He wouldn’t kick the seat in front to be fair in another seat but better safe than sorry.

I've never heard of stowing a tablet for take off. I usually watch a film.

Whenever I've sat in the emergency exit row, I've been asked to stow the full shebang.

OP clearly wasn't IN the emergency exit row though, since that has more leg room and the whole issue has arisen due to the lack of leg room.

That was kind of my point. It's clearly not an exit row so she had no reason to stow the tablet.

My child has complex sn’s and I made sure to make it clear to him that his behaviour impacts other people.

At the age of 4 I would have had him apologize to the woman to teach personal responsibility.

For all you know the woman was also ND. Or her child had just died.

Everyone has their shit and it’s important to teach kids to be respectful of that. You never know what someone else is going through.

OP, you continue to make yourself look really useless and entitled.

All passengers are required to stow electronics larger than a cell phone for take off and landing.

True, but that didn't give them any right to be verbally abusive to the OP.

You sound pretty entitled.

I have had 3 DDs at one point 2 toddlers on a plane. They need to learn how to sit.

Yes its a pain in the arse but they just cannot kick the seat, its annoying.

Now clearly this woman was rather unhinged swearing and shouting and i would have not accepted that but sometimes we parents need to understand that whilst our children are the centre our our world they are not in other peoples worlds.

Maybe it's different in the US but in Europe as long as it's in flight mode it's fine.
But if it's the norm and you know your child cannot sit still without the distraction of a device you should have been prepared with your own phone.

I never said that she’s incapable of misdemeanors. She is quite badly behaved sometimes, and she is given appropriate consequences when that happens. Her feet were touching the seat as she moved about, and like I said, I’m sure that was annoying. It still wasn’t on purpose.

I also don’t think it’s developmentally inappropriate for a not-yet-4 yo, who was woken up at 4:30 AM and has little experience with sitting with thirst, to cry when her parent can’t give her a drink for what probably feels like a very long time to her, or to have a hard time sitting still in an uncomfortable seat.

My child makes friends everywhere she goes. I honestly don’t know how she does it, and I wish I was like that. When she arrives at school, most of her class runs over to hug her, and the last few to get picked up don’t let her leave without hugs either. She always shares and takes her turn very nicely, helps others out, tries to comfort those she recognizes as being upset, and apologizes when she realizes she’s done something wrong, so I think she wants to be considerate of other people. She’s just not the best at being aware of her body in space and controlling it.

I don’t make complaints on the occasions when they tell me she’s having behavioral problems at school; I try to work with them to figure out what might be the issue and come up with solutions. Sometimes she’s going through some shit, just like anybody else, and needs support from the adults around her. Sometimes she’s just being a little shit and needs additional direction/correction. But I bother to take the time to figure out which of those it is and respond appropriately, instead of jumping to conclusions.

This is why there are kids turning up to start school in nappies.

How long between drinks did she go to be so thirsty?

But the woman was not being respectful when she swore loudly on a plane around children.

You can put sharp knives out of reach, explain to your child that they’re dangerous, and teach them how to use them with plastic or wooden knives with close supervision…

I explained to DD that she needs to be mindful of her feet because it’s annoying to the person in front of her, and she didn’t kick the seats when we had been on previous, shorter, “practice” flights, but I couldn’t move the seat away from her. And honestly holding a young child in an uncomfortable position (cross legged or with knees to her chest, as I was encouraging her to do) for a long time seems… I don’t want to say “abusive,” because that’s a very strong word, but at the very least, very unkind of the parent. I wouldn’t expect anyone to do that to a child sitting behind me, even if my seat was being kicked. I’ve had a lot of practice with dealing with discomfort; most children have not.

My knees fit, though barely, and I am an adult capable of minding my body in space and controlling my fidgeting. DD is still working on that.

She had some water before bed the night prior, and a few sips of our drinks at the gate before we lined up to board, wherein I put them in the carry on for easier maneuver. The flight was very full, and it took a long time to get everyone seated. They retracted the bridge, but then had to bring it back out so that one passenger having a medical emergency could get off the plane.

After the delays, the crew was anxious to get going and was reminding everyone to stay in their seats with seatbelts fastened, tray tables in the upright position, large devices stowed, etc. (Cue WIFOU cussing at FA for telling her to put her window shade up.) It then took a while for the plane to reach cruising altitude, with little enough turbulence for passengers to be permitted movement.

I don't understand why she couldn't have a drink when you were on the plane?