Airplane drama!

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DD is a month shy of 4, and we’re flying into California for a hiking/camping trip. The flight is 5 hours, and we booked the cheapest one we could. Naturally, the space between rows of seating are insanely small (that’s what I get for scrimping, I suppose), and DD is at an awkward height where the edge of the seat is hitting her upper/mid calf, so her feet are forced outwards if she’s not sitting closer to the edge so that her knees can bend (if that makes sense?) She’s also inherited my boat feet, so the ends of her shoes are literally a couple centimeters from the seat in front of her.

She was having a hard time getting comfortable in her seat for take off, and every time she went to adjust herself, her feet moved and touched the seat in front of her. Not like, intentionally full force kicking the seat or anything (which I’ve definitely experienced in the past. I’m not sure a car seat would have helped with distancing her from it, either.) She also just fidgets a lot because, y’know, she’s a child. The woman sitting in it (I’m thinking she had to be in her late 40s, maybe 50s) turned around and directly told my daughter to stop kicking her seat. I reiterated to DD to sit still and try to keep her feet to herself.

She was struggling to do that, so I tried to have her lie down with her feet on my lap (it’s an early flight; she should be sleeping anyhow), but the flight attendant came by to say she needed to be sitting upright and facing forward for take off, so I put her back to where she was. A few minutes later, the woman turns around again and loudly snaps (almost shouting) “Stop kicking my seat! This is the last time I’m telling you!” Which, idk seems kind of like a threat ? I certainly would have spoken to the parent, not the child, and used different words, or involved the flight attendant if I was so bothered by something s/he was doing. And I know it’s certainly annoying to have someone touching your seat, and I was (audibly, I think) doing my best to keep that from happening. I apologized to the woman and kept trying to keep DD still.

A few minutes go by, and we’re about to start taxiing to the runway, and DD starts whining that she’s thirsty. (Me being a dummy dumb dumb, I left our drinks from the airport in the carry on I stowed) I told her they’ll bring us something to drink in a bit, once we’re in the air. I honestly think DD was being pretty patient, but she is tired, and started to cry after a while. (Full tears, definitely noisy, but not like, throwing a fit or anything.) I was desperately trying to get her headphones synched to my phone and a YouTube video pulled up in order to distract her. The fidgeting continued, of course.

The woman in front of us (WIFOU) started cursing in both English and Spanish (not turned around again, but definitely directed at us), saying things like “Shut the fuck up!”, “Son of a bitch! Make her stop!” “ And “I’m about to fucking develop Tourette’s!” Which I was aghast to hear in a cabin with lots of children in earshot, and also thought was pretty insensitive to people who actually have Tourette’s.. Her partner made comments about how it’s going to be a long flight and they weren’t going to get any sleep.

The swearing only made DD cry more. I didn’t say anything to them, but just kept working on quieting her down. Used bribes snacks, threats consequences, distractions, and promises, and eventually succeeded. Course, soon as mine stopped, another child started having a tantrum behind us. This elicited “Knock that thing out with some fucking drugs!” from WIFOU. I was surprised the flight attendant (FA) didn’t say anything to her about it. I thought, maybe she should be the one knocking herself out with drugs, but kept that to myself.

By twenty minutes into the flight, WIFOU and her partner had asked three times to be moved, but the only available seats were “upgraded” to be more comfortable and spacious, and cost an additional £60 each, and they refused to pay. The third time, the FA checked in with DD and I and gave me an obligatory “Can you have her stop kicking? I know she’s a child…” I told her “We’re trying,” and she nodded understandingly and went back to her duties.

The fourth time they asked to be moved/upgraded, they were getting irate. FA looked embarrassed to have to insist they pay for the better seats. I interjected and suggested that the couple switch rows with DD and I, so that at least she wouldn’t be behind them. This irritated the people sitting in the aisle seats, who had to get up to allow us to shuffle around, but it at least stopped their complaining. I was worried DD was going to piss off our new neighbors ahead, but thankfully it was a little boy sitting in front of DD, and he didn’t seem to notice
DD’s wiggling about… I finally just got her to sleep, 2.5 hours in.

I think next time we will either cough up the funds for more spacious seating or just fly via a different airline… But honestly, I see airplanes as just another form of public transportation that’s gonna have crying and fidgety kids on it, with parents ranging from desperately trying to keep their littles polite and unassuming, to entitled parents who think it’s their kids’ right to run wild and do as they please... If I didn’t want to hear or feel them, I’d probably wear my hearing protection I use for my job, and purchase the seat behind me. Usually I just put up with it, since I empathize. I don’t think children should have to miss out on traveling before they’re fully developed, either.

What’s your opinion?

A car seat is normal on flights in USA!

She described her child - her legs were uncomfortable because when she sat in the seat she could not bend her knees. She has big feet so obviously she's going to catch the seat in front as her legs are straight. How much leg room is there on a flight in economy? Error very little!

I believe the OP did her best under the circumstances.

All she's had is judgemental people telling her she should have done ABC. No consideration about the adults horrible unnecessary behaviour at all and just for a few minutes with no suggestion to switch seats, they were demanding a free upgrade! Entitled or what?

And FYI, I too took my kids, who are just 14m apart in age, all over the world from 3m of age. We holidayed for 8 weeks every year until they went to school then kicked it back to 6 weeks. They never kicked anyone's seat. So, dont tell me about flights and kids, I dont need your counselling or criticism! Now, wind your neck in.

Some kids are harder to manage than others. I work with kids and families - believe me, it's not always the parents' fault. At 3-4 some children are just not great at doing what they're told.
The WIF sounds certifiably insane and incredibly unpleasant/aggressive.
People on here are being very weird.

Distraction, distraction, distraction always take plenty of different stuff to occupy. My son Never kicked the seat in front I simply wouldn’t allow it. We coloured, played games, watched Thomas the tank, (with headphones) ate, counted and then normally slept. It is highly irritating to be kicked you feel everting from behind. However, the woman in fronts behaviour was TOTALLY unacceptable there are ways and means of complaining. On a family flight I would have had words with her to keep her language in check and mutual consideration and respect from all parties. Ultimately if she carried on effing and jeffing she would have been kicked off the flight. In my experience parents just don’t instil enough consideration on flights.

She clearly tried to do that and distract her.

Honestly I wonder if many people posting have actually had children - real children who got upset when they were uncomfortable. As an adult if Im uncomfortable I move, dont you?!

You make me laugh!

Her language was awful but I don’t get why you didn’t stop your DD kicking the seats? My DS is profoundly autistic and developmentally about 2 years old but we don’t let him do it? We distract, distract, distract and also hold his feet if he’s flailing them around. I don't get why you let her carry on doing it.

Well, she failed. It's not ok to have a child repeatedly kick the back of your seat on a plane.

Well done, it's tough will a child with additional needs. Your hard work is obviously paying off, though.

Children do not need immediate access to a drink 24/7
If you can fit in the seat, a 4 year old has loads of space
She only had to be strapped down for 5 minutes for the actual take off.
She clearly doesn’t do what she’s told,
Yes she is nearly 4, but paying for more room is pointless, the problem will persist , “she wasn't sitting still”

I agree with this. Honestly if it was as you describe then I personally don’t think yabu 🤷‍♀️ kids don’t always do what we want them to, and in certain situations it’s significantly harder to discipline than others. From my experience planes are one of the trickiest places to try to discipline and not bother others through that process (unless you have very obedient children!)

My eldest was very obedient and would have been no bother. My 2 youngest are very determined and strong willed and disciplining them is entirely different. Without the tools of removing them from the situation or distracting them, discipline is generally pretty noisy unfortunately so would definitely have pissed of WIFOY.

No it’s not ideal, but it’s just a part of living in a world with other people! Sometimes people do things that annoy us, especially children who are still learning about being considerate and social rules and niceties. As long as you were doing your best to do something about it then I wouldn’t have been annoyed, I would’ve been sympathetic.

We’ve not really had a choice as most of our family live overseas so we do need to fly. I literally bring a whole carry on just of fidget toys, books and snacks and a loaded tablet to make sure he’s not disturbing people. It’s not easy but other people have paid for their seats too so it’s not fair to disturb them if we can avoid it.

Well, nobody wants to seat for 5 hours and have their seat constantly kicked by a child.

Your job as a parent is to keep your daughter occupied and to teach her that kicking is not OK.

It sounds like you were not well prepared and that made things worse.

Yes that woman was over the top in the way she reacted, but you should understand that you and your kid were causing the issue and the passenger should not have to put up with it.

You should

I would agree if we were talking about an adult kicking the seat, or a parent who isn't trying their best to settle their child. But in some cases, you can't completely stop a child from annoying people with their crying or fidgeting - short of throwing them out of the plane.

I'm not even a particularly patient or tolerant person, but even I would have some compassion in this situation, or even suggest the solution they ended up with: changing seats.

I had 3 active boys who did travel extensively and who knew how to behave on a plane. They all knew it was unacceptable to kick the seats in front and unacceptable to have a meltdown if they couldn't get access to a drink instantly. It seems these days some parents aren't prepared to set boundaries or have consequences for poor behaviour.

Crying or fidgeting isn't a problem. I used to regularly fly long haul. That's not a problem. You can tune a lot of stuff out and deal with it.
However, this is a child - not a toddler, who was repeatedly kicking the back of a seat. That's not ok.

So in other words, you allowed your daughter to kick the woman's seat and disturb others by passively allowing her to behave like a whining brat the entire flight. It must have been torturous for this poor woman. This is what you do, you discipline her and stop her from disturbing others who are uncomfortable enough as it is in economy. Most people cannot afford business class to avoid this, it costs a small fortune. Small children and babies should be banned flights in my opinion unless there are extenuating circumstances.

I was on a long haul flight last week & had free WiFi. But not economy.

So you teach them to tolerate discomfort. Again, one of mine had a condition (the same one I have) that makes it difficult and uncomfortable to stay in one position. That child was on the aisle seat next to me with another adult on the other side. We got her up regularly to walk, she sat on the knee of all three adults (only siblings were next to said adults) and we’d prepared her for it being uncomfortable beforehand; at 5 she could better understand and process that but we spent a lot of time prepping the three year old for how long the flight would be, what she would be able to do, what she wouldn’t be able to do and behaviour expectations. We’re either perfect? No, but any bad behaviour jumped on pronto? Yes. Of course the three year old - or the five year old tbh - could have completely lost it and we’d have been screwed. But we reduced the risk of that and tbf it sounds like the OP’s daughter hadn’t lost it, more that OP was a bit wet.

These days! Are you 100 years old? I am 50 and I had some good and some bad flights with my children. I have had worse flights with adults displaying bad behaviour than children to be fair…

Oh she was spoiling for a fucking fight as soon as she got on that plane.

YANBU.

YABU. You can’t have sat in a seat with a child kicking the back of it before. It’s infuriating! I’ve held my tongue during films and shows though I’ve been very tempted to say something. I certainly would for a 5 hour flight!

I get what you’re saying OP, I remember my oldest being at that age and their little legs stick straight out so everytime they move their feet hit the seat in front of them, not on purpose but because their bodies don’t behave the same way an adults would where their feet go straight down.

I am of the mind that as long as parent is doing their best and isn’t ignoring their child then there isn’t much that can be done. Being contained in a small space is hard and everyone needs to have grace when dealing with small children.

You should have paid for a £60 upgrade then if economy was too small for a child.

🙄

With the greatest of respect, you sound like you go with 'gentle parenting'. Perhaps you could try being firmer and set clear boundaries.

The woman was out of order swearing the way she did and I would have rained hell on her if she spoke to my child like that - but my child wouldn't have been allowed to behave like that in the first place.

It doesn't sound like she kept 'forgetting ' to cross her legs. It sounds to me like she was being defiant.

Like others have said, I'd have put my hands in front of her feet, held her legs, kept her legs crossed, anything that would have prevented her from repeatedly touching the seat in front with her feet.

I have been on the receiving end of having my chair kicked and its annoying. Once or twice is forgivable, after that it starts to seem deliberate or careless, as in, the person doesn't care that they are being annoying.

There's also a difference between a child who is genuinely upset and one that is left to cry without being comforted, or challenged because they are whinging for the sake of it.

Parents CAN correct their child's behaviour if they choose. To say otherwise is just an excuse.

As I’ve wittered on about above, my children are 7, 5 and 3. I am “parents these days” and I completely agree with @Spirallingdownwards . Maybe the adults you mention are the children who didn’t have boundaries or consequences for bad behaviour?

Im not the best disciplinarian but even I despair where the op says but you can’t make a 3 year old do something. If you have that attitude how do you keep them safe if, for example, you can’t make them stay on the pavement and not run into the road?

As I’ve said, I accept I don’t have the best discipline but I still made a spirited and partially successful attempt to prevent 3yo’s (equally spirited attempt) to make noise through a two minute’s silence. I didn’t completely manage it but I am absolutely sure that we got much more understanding because people could see me trying (and the real answer was don’t take her because I couldn’t guarantee her silence. I wouldn’t do it again - which is the alternative solution I’ve suggested to the OP re flying)