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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Another Lap-Dancing one

122 replies

LindenAvery · 19/05/2008 17:22

Hi, I have been reading thru' some past threads on the subject due to OH going on a Stag do later this year and came across this

lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,,2266504,00.html.

I have changed my opinion and think all OH's that go to these clubs should read article and comment on the statistics stated. They are not ones to be proud of.

OP posts:

theBOD · 19/05/2008 17:34

so a woman working as a stripper was suprised that men viewd her as a sexual object.

that and she took on a job which she hated was soul destroying just to pay the rent.
hardly riveting stuff.
i hate my job and it's sould destroying but i have to pay the rent.and nobody is forcing me to be there and i can change job if i want but realisticly i won't make half as much money in any other sector.

Original poster

LindenAvery · 19/05/2008 17:54

oops put a thread in wrong place - new to this!!

What I was drawing attention to is the statistics on sexual assault, rape and women being violently attacked. Just concerned how lap dancing clubs are considered acceptable and normal. Sad society to raise children in. What will be normal for stag do's in 20 and 30 years time? Rape and Murder??

OP posts:

pinkyp · 19/05/2008 17:56

every body has a choice what they want to do as a job, some of use struggle working a few hours at the local supermarket to pay the bills etc, others work as strippers - its their choice. Men will see them as objects but thats to be expected in the job, if people come to ur till in the supermarket they see u as some one who they have to pay for their shopping. EVERYONE who can work has a choice, not everyone gets the same opportunitys as others and some people struggle to get work or cant work (not through choice). OH are not to blame on this they have a choice if they want to go, the woman have a choice if they want to dance - simple.

pinkyp · 19/05/2008 18:00

p.s people who abuse/ rape lap dancers should be punished the same as a man abusing / raping anyone no matter what they do for a living - its not acceptable at all. If u dont trust ur partner to act properly at a lap joint maybe u shouldnt be with him. If u do there should be no harm in letting him go.

beaniesteve · 19/05/2008 20:30

Don't we all know by now that whatever we wear, wherever we go, yes means yes and no means no?

dittany · 19/05/2008 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

beaniesteve · 19/05/2008 20:53

The proper way to behave is to pay money and get a dance, surely?

Apparently in some places you can touch too.

I'm not a man.

policywonk · 19/05/2008 20:57

For those who haven't read the link, I think the OP is particularly drawing attention to this:

' And a report by the Lilith Project, run by the charity Eaves Housing, which looked at lap-dancing in Camden Town, north London, found that in the three years before and after the opening of four large lap-dancing clubs in the area, incidents of rape in Camden rose by 50%, while sexual assault rose by 57%.'

I think that's a pretty damning statistic. What about the right of the women and children around these establishments to go about their business without being exposed to a significantly increased risk of sexual assault?

Oh, of course. A man's right to have a wank must always take precedence over women's personal safety.

ChukkyPig · 19/05/2008 21:01

Linden I agree the stats are awful but not very surprising.

The whole idea of it being perfectly normal for men to go to strip clubs is imo a lot down to american tv shows where people like policemen always seem to go to strip clubs as if they were normal bars, for lunch, after work drinks etc etc. Weird.

Of course there is then no surprise that your average man will leap at any chance to normalise this behaviour.

I find it really upsetting and weird that men I know and consider to be quite nice cannot see anything wrong with visiting these places - now no stag do is complete without a bevy of pole-dancers. Thirty years ago these places just didn't exist outside of soho and your average man, even in a stag group, was far too scared to go there.

As for beanstevies comment, in theory I agree, but in practice hundreds of women in the UK learn every day that no still means yes.

jellybeans · 19/05/2008 21:03

Interesting article. I think LDC are sleazy and abit gross and not good for girls and women. there are many other ways to make a living which do not degrade women.

Divastrop · 19/05/2008 21:07

there is a petition for lap-dancing clubs to be re-licenced as sex establishments rather than coffee shops/cafes.hopefully if it goes through then these places will be seen as less 'normal'.

Divastrop · 19/05/2008 21:09

'If u dont trust ur partner to act properly at a lap joint maybe u shouldnt be with him. If u do there should be no harm in letting him go.'

lol.if i didnt trust my dh not to go to a lap-dancing club/brothel(all the same bloody thing)then i wouldnt be with him anyway!

PosieParker · 19/05/2008 21:10

Actually the implications of women adding to the demeaning of women by stripping and lapdancing coupled with the men who support that industry are now proven that they are directly responsible for an increase in sexual crimes against women. It is not good enough to plead ignorance and avoid blame, the statistics prove the link as much as passive smoking causes cancer.

PosieParker · 19/05/2008 21:12

If my dp goes to a LDC there is one thing I will knwo for sure and that's that he wants our relationship to end.

beaniesteve · 19/05/2008 21:14

Hang on. So now we are saying that the female lapdancers are responsible for the leap in rapes and sexual assaults in that area?

Surely the rapists are responsible for the leap in Rapes and sexual assaults in that area? Or am I being an ostrich?

I am sorry but that';s dangerously close to saying wearing a short skirt or drinking a lot makes you more likely to be raped. We need to stop blaming women for rape. Men rape because they decide to rape not because women or seeing naked women makes them rape.

That old argument trotted out about how prostitution stops rape annoys me too.

I think it does a great dis-service to men to suggest that these things make them rape. Either you are the kind of person who will rape or you are not. It's very insulting to suggest that these things make or turn men into rapists and if I were a man I would be really upset by that suggestion.

PosieParker · 19/05/2008 21:15

Can you explain why the sex crime rate goes up if it's not associated with lap dancing clubs and reducing women to sexual objects. Perhaps they attract sexual predators?

jellybeans · 19/05/2008 21:16

I find it sad that my DDs will soon learn what LDC and the like are. Seems bizare bringing them up to think they are equal to males and not just a sex object but then them seeing that society allows and accept these sleazy clubs.

beaniesteve · 19/05/2008 21:17

I know for certain that if my oh were to go to a lapdancing club he wouldn't leave feeling like he wanted to rape someone. If he went to a lap dancing club I am sure I'd be a bit 'meh' about it but not for one moment would I question his ability to know that no means no!

policywonk · 19/05/2008 21:17

Publicising a statistic that shows a significant correlation between lapdancing clubs and sexual assaults is not the same as blaming lapdancers, beaniesteve. I for one will happily lame the rapists. The point is that there is a correlation between the presence of the clubs and an increase in sexual assault.

beaniesteve · 19/05/2008 21:18

I wish there were more men on this thread.

beaniesteve · 19/05/2008 21:21

So if we get rid of the lap dancing clubs, does the national rate of sexual assaults go down (All over the country I mean) or are we just experiencing a general increase anyway?

Statistics can be used and abused to say whatever anyone wants them to say, so I think they would be more useful if viewed alongside national statistics.

Divastrop · 19/05/2008 21:21

i think saying a man is either the kind who will rape or not is a bit too simplistic.alot of rapists dont even realise theyve done anything wrong,and i think women being potrayed as sex objects has alot to do with men having that attitude.

PosieParker · 19/05/2008 21:23

I don't think a rapist lies dormant in every man and then he visits a lapdancing bar and comes out with tyhe urge to rape. I do think much 'male' behaviour is encouraged and lots of drinking occurs and then sexual assault can happen. Most of us, I think, have had a little experience when a 'no' has had to become a very firm 'NO'. I just wonder whether a man after seeing women as sexual objects for the evening with the sort of jeering and comment that is incredibly sexual and reduces that women to tits and arse, whether that firm 'No' has to get very very serious until it's listened to. There are many many men that this isn't true for, but I just wonder.
And I think that sexual predators must be drawn to places like this.

beaniesteve · 19/05/2008 21:25

Which men don't know what they have done is wrong, deaf ones? I know there's a whole other issue to do with consent particularly when drink is involved but any reasonable human being would not want to have sex with someone who can't consent.

It may be a simplistic view but I do believe that my brother, for example, would never become one of those men who don't know what they have done is wrong, because my brother knows you don't have sex with people without consent.

beaniesteve · 19/05/2008 21:26

How many of us here actually think our own partners could become one of those kinds of men after visiting a lap dancing club?

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