Male colleague needs part time working mum to take care of 1 child

[colleg]

I was talking to a colleague recently and it came up that we both had sons who are 3 years old. I also have a 5 year old daughter.

my colleague was saying that he could never do the job ( the same job I do ), if his wife didn’t work very very part time around the needs of their 3 year old.

I was pretty shocked he said that to me. Isn’t it funny how a man can take such huge liberties and convince his wife that she can’t possibly work full time / she has to be the full time default parent for their 1 child, while there’s a woman standing next to him, who has two kids, does the same job as him and is also the default parent !

and before you start, no the child does not have special needs. It really does seem that this colleague needs his wife’s support to do the job I do, with two kids in tow.

it’s a high pressured job, but it’s a desk job. We aren’t going out to fields, farming the land or working in construction. We aren’t nurses or doctors on shift work. We have a 9-5 desk job in essence. And we also work from home, for most of the week.

I know what you mean op-he’s bigged up his job to make it seem more important and difficult than it is. My ex used to be a bit like this-he pedestalled his job & his role so couldn’t possibly do nursery drop off/pick up, I would need to work my part time (slightly less paid) job around his. His job? 9-5 desk job. My part time role? Front line staff in A+E working shifts. But somehow never as important, or requiring as much support to maintain as his.
it’s all about the framing/semantics.

I think there’s a tendency for people to argue without engaging their brain these days.

I do agree though. FIL is a quiet chauvinist and in the job I did when the kids were small (PT) he couldn’t compute that several members of the team were men. Because my job had to be a “little job”.

Also when my eldest was a small baby DH and I were having the usual “who’s tiredest” nonsense and we were visited by a colleague of DH’s who did the same job. DH brightly said - “you can answer this question! What’s hardest, looking after a baby or doing our job?” He looked properly chastened when she fell about laughing.

I assume op uses childcare, but still does the nursery drop off and pick up, feeds the children, puts them to bed, takes day off if they are sick and does activities with them at the weekend.

This particular man says he is unable to do a nursery pick up and apparently knows so little about his own child, he is having to get used to it, before his wife goes away.

There is quite a difference between using paid childcare, and opting out of the whole routine to the point you need to familiarise yourself with your child..

I get you OP. I think you will get a whole bunch of people on here defensive about their own situation though. Maybe it’s hard to hear that their partners don’t HAVE to be so unavailable due to their jobs.

OP’s husband is happy for her to run herself into the ground by being the default carer to their joint children while also working full time. The only difference between the coworker and OP’s husband is that only one wife is expected to work full time while still being the one to do everything else.

It's not hard to understand. He has a lot of flexibility and does little to help his wife. Your husband is a farmer and no way is the two jobs comparable. I think you hit a few nerves with your post as it's their life you're talking about.

Shouldn't be a surprise really. Most men with family and hot shot career couldn't have made it there if they had the same childcare and societal demands that women have. They wouldn't make if their wives were not holding the fort at home and clearing their emotional work caches when they get home. Listening, letting them go on their weekend cycling or golfing trips to de-stress. At least this man acknowledges it. Many think it's all them. That they can do what they do and do childcare and social obligations (care of elderly parents for example often falls on daughters not sons). We are a long way away from parity

It sounds like he lacks confidence with his own son. If I was him I wouldn’t be so open with my colleagues and just get on with the work. Who knows how judgmental and possibly resentful they might feel. ( rightfully so btw )
If his wife is happy that’s fine surely .

I know exactly what you mean, I used to work in a very male dominated industry and the men doing my job were oh all so busy and important, barely aware there were some small people living in the house, because they couldn't possibly not be expected to participate in family life. They didn't clock that I was in face doing the job, better than them, while also very much taking care of a toddler and a baby.

Especially hilarious was the work trip where they all asked who is taking care of my children, and looked utterly puzzled when I said that same person as in your case, their other parent. Then asked me if I'm not worried leaving them home alone like that..

I think that many people find the reality of childcare, especially small children, very stressful in reality. I suspect some men, who genuinely love their kids, dip in and out of the things they can't cope as well with. One of my male colleagues said he has friends who intentionally come home late so that they miss bath and bedtime. In our house that is an extremely chaotic time as mine are semi-feral when they are tired. But I love this age and I love this stage so I am extremely happy to do it.

I see what you’re saying op, but tbh I would have interpreted what he said differently. To me he sounds like he’s being appreciative for what his wife does to support him to do his job. Of course if she wanted or had to work full time, he would just have to suck it up and get on with it like many other parents do. I’m sure he would find a way to survive, it would just make his life harder.

I didn’t go back to full time working until both children were in school. It was easier for me and by default it was easier for DH. Now we both work full time again, there are still times it becomes tricky logistically. If I had a choice, I probably wouldn’t work at all, but I do because it meets the requirements of our family finances.

Yet another man-child. AKA not a whole adult human.

I'm sick of 'em. I'm glad I'm older, because this is one of my main bugbears and I'm relieved I don't have to tolerate this incompetence.

I have a lovely divorced friend (male) who has 3 children and does the vast majority of the care for his kids because his ex has mental health issues. He has a very demanding full-time job. He's not exceptional. He does it because he has to. So many pathetic men just won't step up and I have no respect for them.

It IS an assumption though because OP has not clarified, despite numerous requests, regarding her own childcare arrangements and what this ‘flexibility’ entails. Plenty of remote-since-Covid workers are being ordered back into the office because of perceived piss-taking around flexible home working.

Has OP’s own husband opted into any of those responsibilities?

Would be helpful if she clarified. It doesn’t like he’s a particularly hands-on parent either “due to the nature of his work”.

Small children require 24/7 care and supervision. It is perfectly legitimate for a parent to believe that their child's other parent is best placed to provide that care and supervision. It's not a value judgement on other families' choices, just an expression of their own choices.

There's no merit in both parents running themselves raggared, kids in care (nursery, then before and after school clubs) so they barely see them, female still usually the default in everything. The fact people think this should be the accepted norm are the ones who have been fooled. Ideally the person who works full time should be doing their bit at home too, of course. If this guy is just pretending to work, well obviously that's shit but I'm sure most would rather be home with their families and those who don't wouldn't do more whether or not their wives worked full or part time.

We all have different abilities to cope with work and stress. He may have hidden mental health issues or personal pressures that you don't see. I know I can't cope with anywhere near the same level of work stress now that I'm peri and a carer in my spare time. Everyone's circumstances are different and you sound quite judgemental. Congrats for coping so well, not everyone is the same as you.

I hear what you are saying, but I am inferring that your DH earns a good enough wage that, between you, you can afford childcare costs that facilitate you both working FT? Work colleague and DW may have run the numbers and with her working FT they may have barely broken even financially - many of my friends only went back to work 2 days a week for about 5 years to keep their CVs active for this reason. There was no extra money after even just 3 days childcare costs. Despite having professional jobs because they had to commute to London (ie longer days than nursery operated, and in the days before WFH was standard), they simply could not afford to go back FT and pay a nanny. It was simply not worth the money. Like my DH and I, they have no local family to pick up the slack when you have a sick child that cannot go to nursery/school. We had to weigh all of that and decided it was more financially savvy and less stressful for me to be a SAHP. I didn’t want to pay a nanny (the only way to cover commute hours, as I worked in the City too) and only see my kids at bedtime. It killed my Dh that this was all he got when they were younger - but he felt better knowing that at least I was there in their lives all day and when they were sick.

And if work colleague’s wife is at home largely FT to accommodate his work, WHY should he go and do the nursery pick ups? They’ve agreed the balance of childcare predicated on his working FT - within their family set up, nursery runs are her remit. Why are you upset if it works for them? It’s really none of your business if they and their child are happy.

It may genuinely be in this guy’s case that he simply could not work FT without his wife opting to go PT. Your family circumstances are different - you could, instead of judging, just be really grateful that the work/childcare balance in your household enables you both to work FT and share childcare duties.

Exactly this!! I completely get what you are saying, I wonder if he's wildly exaggerating his job to his wife or fully believes he's that important.
In my baby group, the husband of one of the other mums does the same job as me but a 22.5hr contract, and I'm full time. She's given up work as he can't help with any child care or house work or life admin. I sometimes wonder what on earth he is doing with all his time. She is very firmly under the impression he is absolutely indispensable at work, when in reality he's off on smoke breaks all day and we wouldn't miss him if he wasnt there at all.

You have to really love your career (or need the money) for it to be worth it. I remember how full on it was. The kids were happier when one of us wasn't working, especially when their dad wasn't working 😅

My thoughts are that so many of us are just working too hard right now and it's exhausting. Just because it's possible for both parents to work full time in high pressure roles it doesn't mean it's desirable for the children or the parents. Sounds like the colleague is bigging up the effort his wife puts in with their child?

Well, that's what you pay nursery to do but some people want to do it themselves and be with their children, you don't need to be so sneery about it. You would soon be cross if she said anything negative about you sending your children to nursery instead of looking after them yourself, I'm sure.

but then do others have other people that help them achieve this or is it soley down to them ?

OP has said she's not judging their choices, but the guy claiming he couldn't possibly do his job if he also had to contribute to taking care of his child. While OP manages it just fine.

I think the thing is though, the guy is using childcare, he just expects his wife to work part-time to co-ordinate it all.

My DH would say the same as OP's co-worker, but that is because we don't want our kids in childcare young (personal decision, not slating anyone) and we aren't in a location where quality full-time childcare exists anyway (overseas) so he does need someone here to provide the supervision. He wouldn't have the freedom to conduct his career the way he has if I hadn't sidelined mine. & he does say it a lot, because he does appreciate it.

I wonder if the colleague said this because he's used to it making him look like an appreciative husband, without realising how rubbish it would sound to OP, who does the same job.

People are different but I've never been inspired hearing about others struggles. When I hear someone say they have 2 kids, both work full time, ferry them to activities, do dinner and housework and don't sit down until 11pm that does nothing for me. It doesn't make me feel like well if they can cope then I can cope, I'd still really hate to live like that.