To feel these parent are not understanding ( WhatsApp and Sats )

[Bringmecookies25]

I will try not to drip feed.

DC clas have been preparing for the Sats with mocks/ practice and this has included doing it exactly the way it will happen on the day which has lead to other students noticing “ access arrangements “
today a parent queried in the class WhatsApp group about this
for example “ Henry has said that some people are not completing the tests independently and staff are writing/ reading for them and that a few of them do not finish at the same time and can leave the classroom “

it was politely explained by one parent and seemed to be accepted by parent of Henry - this thought triggered another mum who to be fair is often triggered to pipe up and go on a rant about how it’s always the children who get it easier and it will not be a fair judgement for secondary school sets etc
( area means most children will be going up to the same secondary school ) they then started rambling about GCSEs like what happens at GCSE they get an easier ride in them to get in to colleges ?
this then caused a trickle ( not most ) but a few of the other parents to join in agreement.
My DC is one of them who will be receiving the access arrangements and probably more so than the others as they will have extra time / breaks / scribe and reader in maths etc.
from mocks my DC is likely to get
WT nearly WA in spag - last came out at 97
WA in math - last was 102
GD in reading comp - last was 117
will score low in teaching assessment of writing.
one of the complaints was which I did take to it to beinf towards my DC that sole on the children are not even behind and it just means they will be benefit and have less stress than her DC.

I just wanted to shout at them they have no understanding of the situation and that the point of access arrangements is not to give them a better chance than others but to give them an equal chance !

The thing is if an exam has a time limit that is because it is more difficult to do it under time restriction. Speed of thinking is a part of intelligence and it is ridiculous to compensate 'slow-thinking' students with extra time.
You can't have it both ways!

DininishedSevenths (love the username!), by “not being very academic”, I’m guessing that you perhaps mean “not very intelligent”? (As opposed to reflecting the normal span of intelligence but for whatever reason (eg, having no use of one’s arms, being unable to see/read/hear the questions) being unable to demonstrate that intelligence and thus not fitting into the boxes that the current academic system requires children to jump through, even when they may be physically impossible for some?

My heart sinks when I read this because I know that both my highly intelligent DDs are still going to face this sort of outdated perception throughout their lives. Not being very academic in the sense of “not being intelligent” is completely unrelated to having SEN. Obviously. And thank God, we know that now. My DDs are both ND - one has dyslexia and one has ADHD. They both fall within the top 1% for intelligence - CAT scores of 140 etc. DD1(11) wants to work at CERN and I think that sort of career would suit her very well. They don’t have problems because “they’re not very clever” - the inability to make the letters stay still when you look at them, for example, is not about being clever or not clever. It’s just a different way of processing information. I found school and exams quite easy - I didn’t fave their difficulties. They might not get 9s in GCSE English, but they have much stronger intellectual abilities than me. They take after DH, thank goodness!

I think this is my problem with it. GCSEs assess multiple aspects including understanding, recall, and speed of thinking. If we are giving some students extra time for slow thinking then we are saying that speed of thinking isn’t a part of what is being tested. In which case, why have a time limit at all. Just let the students complete the exam in their own time and leave when done.

As an employer looking at Gcse or A level grades, I would want to know which candidates got A particular grade within the time, and which took took an extra 25% time to get there. I don't object where a kid has a physical injury which slows down there writing,.... but slow processing time??? No thank you!

To be honest I’m not quite sure I follow you. My son has low to middling intelligence but not SEN and I agree that the two are not linked. I was just upset at a previous poster suggesting that his life was easier because he does not have SEN. He has no extra time in exams (and I don’t think he should). I suppose it’s a question of whether GCSEs etc should measure overall performance or innate intelligence, but I don’t know the answer to that.

I disagree. (I'm going to talk about GCSEs here as they matter more than y6 SATs.)

Exams in England are meant to test subject knowledge and understanding, not 'speed of thinking'.
The time limit is, in most subjects (Eng Lang may be an exception), perfectly sufficient for most students to answer the whole paper. Having the time limit stops students writing too much unnecessarily, and helps for general admin purposes.
Giving slower writers or slower thinkers extra time enables them to show what they can do.
For most students giving them extra time isn't going to give them noticable extra marks, whereas for those who need it, it can make a considerable difference.

If you want a 'speed of thinking' exam then have one. But don't turn every single GCSE into a 'speed of thinking exam'.

Furthermore given that GCSE Maths and English Language are gateway qualifications, it makes it even more important that those that need access arrangements can have them. Otherwise you are setting them to fail before they even begin.

Just ignore them, at the end of the day it doesn’t matter if they understand or agree with why some children have different arrangements, they do and that’s all that matters.

Then my apologies - I’d only seen your last post and read it in isolation. My mistake for misunderstanding the context!

As I said, I’m clearly the one in our house lacking innate intelligence! 😳

I tend to agree that most of the exams are ok for time, but English Language seems hugely difficult in the time allowed. I think most children would perform better with longer for that exam as they’d have time to properly plan the writing part. If we want to assess their comprehension and writing ability, why not give them all a bit longer.

As an employer, if 'speed of thinking' is particularly important then test it on interviews. But many jobs are not done on instantaneous technical responses. People have time to take a considered view.

Individuals do of course also have responsibility not to take jobs where the main role of the job they are unsuited to.

No problem. I am just very sensitive at the moment as it is so hard to see my lovely boy work so hard with potentially no reward at the end of it. I really really really hope he doesn’t have to do English Language again next year.

@DiminishedSevenths Yes Eng Lang does seem to be an outlier as time management seems to be something essential for all. The amount of text to be read and assimilated is gigantic before you even get on to the writing.

Then I’m really sorry for jumping to conclusions and being snappy. I’m also feeling a bit sensitive, sorry - I know that feeling you describe very well, and God, it’s bloody hard, isn’t it? I hope you’re ok. Sending him (and you) lots of luck.

Sorry - that one was for DiminishedSevenths.

You are looking at it from the POV of my child would perform better if they had extra time. How about the child that needs the 25% extra processing time because without it they wouldn't be able to start the exam? This isn't about them doing better it's about them being able to access the exam and show what they are able to.

I can actually see the end in sight now so I feel a bit better. He’s a hardworking boy and should get 4s across the board but it just feels like it could go either way (particularly in English). Anyway he knows that I’m proud of him whatever and it won’t be the end of the world if he has to do something different at college.

People also do have to remember that those with slower processing time have to deal with this throughout their learning. They have to concentrate harder in lessons, homework takes longer, revision takes longer. Giving them extra time in the exam itself isn't full compensation for that.

The answer would be to give everyone extra time.

Well you are living up to your name there!

The whole point of extra time is to create a more equal starting point for those deemed to need it. My son needed someone else to do his writing for him due to his CP, that physically takes a lot longer than someone who can simply transfer their thoughts from brain to paper themselves. It is no advantage to DS to get that time in terms of the tasks themselves, it is simply to allow the physical process of putting it down on paper to happen.

Same with Dyslexia (for example). A person with that condition cannot read or write at the same speed as someone without it. So they need extra time in order to fully comprehend the words in front of them. Nothing to do with allowing the less intelligent more time to work it out.

My cousin has a DPhil in a very specialised subject, is the best regarded specialist in their area of expertise and has written many set texts. they are dyslexic. Took a lot of time and work to complete the doctorate and the same with writing the books. No one would ever suggest that they lack intelligence.

They are being ridiculous just ignore them. Or if you want to reply just tell them that the assessment reasonable adjustments are just there to create a level playing field. They don't provide any advantage.
Then don't get into any discussions about it.
I hate all the SATs nonsense anyway

You are just demonstrating that you don't understand the point of extra time!

Perhaps she just needs extra time.....

Actually since it's impossible to create a level playing field and determine which natural restrictions (dyslexia) warrant extra time v which don't (lower IQ for example), the only way would be to have open ended exams where everyone takes the time they need. Those who finish in 30 min can leave and if you want to spend 8 hours you do.

Saying you can have extra time if your brain struggles to process info because of x cause but not because of y cause is really not fair and bound to cause resentment.

Or be honest about measuring achievement within a time frame and stick to a fixed limit.

Just to throw my 2 pence in. DDs secondary school didn't even look at Sats results. They did their own baseline testing when they started year 7 and went from there.