To veto a double-barrelled first name

[londongirl5]

My wife is pregnant (we’re two mums). We’ve chosen a name we both like for the baby, say Ellie (I’m not using any real names here). She also wants to name the baby after her grandmother (say Peggy Sue, who was known as Sue). To honor her grandmother she’d like to name the baby “Ellie Sue” as a first name. I’d like the first name to be Ellie, with Sue as a middle name. Neither of us will budge.

I think double-barrelled first names sound silly and “common” and I don’t want my child to be judged at school, university/job applications, appointments etc. My wife thinks it’s offensive and classist that I feel this way. She also seems to think that because she’s carrying the baby she should have more of a say. I want to keep the peace but I feel like I’m always letting her have the final say in things and I can’t call my child a name I don’t like.

Yes me too although lots of people have taken it upon themselves to.try and use only one name over the years and I really don't know why
If you introduced yourself as Patricia for example of would be very rude someone ,to decide to call you Trish

I know someone with three boys who all have double barrelled names, but the second part of the names is the same for all three. It's SO tacky and quite embarrassing when she reels them off, but they are a very immature couple.

I don't disagree. Double-barrelled first names are the epitome of "chav". But despite what is on the birth certificate you can just continuously call her Ellie rather than Ellie-Sue. Most people will follow suit and eventually she will just be Ellie.
When she is older, she can legally change her name.

I had school friends that had hyphened names and in school no one bullied them for it. All of them did drop the second part when they were older though. I don’t know how it affected applications, but considering the vast amount of unusual names now days I don’t think people would think much about it.

Those are far classier than current trends though

As a compromise measure, you could use Sue as the middle name without the hyphen, but let your wife treat it like a hyphenated name.

I have a name like this. My mother wanted me to be called, say, Mary-Lou, but I insisted from a young age that I wanted to be just Mary. I was delighted when I saw that on my actual birth certificate I was Mary Lou Smith, not Mary-Lou Smith. So I've never had any problems going by just Mary Smith, and only mentioning Lou as my middle name when absolutely necessary.

If I'd wanted to be called Mary Lou, though, I could have been. I wouldn't use this style of name for a child myself, but Ellie Sue Surname gives you that bit of flexibility with it - you can call her Ellie, your wife can call her Ellie Sue, and she'll develop a preference eventually and choose for herself.

In the 1970s there was a little flurry of double-barrelled names. I have a Katy-Jane, an Emma-Jane and 2 Anne-Maries in my circle.

Only the Anne-Maries are still double-barrelled. Both the others dropped the Jane decades ago.

Fundamentally though, the issue is that both parents have to agree on a name. So, if you can't make this work, you both need to agree on something else.

I think it depends on the name and if it properly hyphenated. I'm in my 50s and went to school with 3 girls called Sarah-Jane, an Anne-Marie, and a Polly-Anna. All went on to good universities and are very successful in their chosen careers. The current hyphenated (and not hyphenated) names tend to be copies of 'celebrity' names and are so much more prevalent than the more traditional names which I think is why some people see them as common. When my own DC were in school Neighbours and Home and Away were huge on TV and the number of children called Shannon, Charlene, Libby and Paige was hilarious- 4 or 5 of each per class....

I agree @londongirl5 double barrelled first names sound really tacky imo. If I meet a child with one, it does give me an immediate preconception about them. Plus, I do think the name is something both parents have to agree on. Irrespective of who is carrying the baby, no-one should get to unilaterally decide a name that the other isn't happy with.

But do you ever think the problem is with you?

I'll be totally honest here, when I see some of the name threads here, I do think "but do you want your child to come across as a precocious little so and so". I'll be more honest, I was thinking of what Ricky Gervais said about why he doesn't have kids (he'd make little Hampstead cunts), but that bias is with me.

It's problematic, because it means I treat those people, more importantly, those children, differently. I have my reasons as to why I might do that and maybe some of them are even factual. However, I'm stereotyping and discriminating. That's all there is to it.

How could having 2 first names be common? If you're worried about your kid being judged in life, then don't have a kid. Anyway its only people like you who judge people based on misconceptions about names.

Neither of you gets to choose alone so both options are off the table - you both have to agree. For me this meant I couldn’t have the names I liked best and I think that’s the norm.

Only on MN are double barrelled first names considered something to be ashamed of

People on MN occupy RL as well. It's just that they're honest on MN. And I don't think shame is the issue, it's simply noticing a connection.

I'm a teacher and like it or not, double barrel first names are associated with a certain socioeconomic background. The correlation is there. I don't treat the children any differently because of their names of course, but they crop up amongst a certain demographic. I'm working class myself and my name is a shitty meaningless American name from a crap song. I assume most people hear my name and assume my parents were working class and met in the seventies. They would be right as well.

I don't think children necessarily get bullied for having double-barrelled first names. Only problem I've known one student have is her parents insistence on using both names at all times. The child in question is 13 and wants to use her first name only and begs us not to call her Angela-Sarah but if her parents overhear us calling her Angela, they submit complaints and demand we use her full name.

This is written like a reverse.

,

I've a double barrelled first name and it was cute as a child , no so much as a woman in my mid 30s. I've hated since I was about 30 and I've refused to do it to my own kids.

I have 5 children all double barrel names but non of the above.
I think when it comes to names there needs to be a compromise. I've a neice called "Ellie-Jean" after a great granparent and tbh she gets called Ellie or "Jeanie".

YANBU and you should stick to your guns, this really is a LTB situation. (I know you are two mums, I guess LTB is still a valid term but with the B being "bitch" rather than "bastard" of course.)

There are very few acceptable double-barrel names, and even fewer Christian names. The trouble with double-barrel first names is they usually have negative connotations, they are connected with the lower classes, the "trailer trash" type in America - Mary-Jane, Mary-Lou, Peggy-Sue, Billy-Jean, that calibre.

Unless you are from that background and intend to raise a child within it then it's awful to saddle them with a name like this.

I’m with you OP and sorry to those who have hyphenated names or have called their children by hyphenated names.
I do view it as ‘trashy’ , and think what an utter nightmare on forms for the rest of her life.
If you want to call her Ellie let Sue be a middle name.

Many couples argue about the name. We agreed early on that DH could choose a boys name and I could choose a girls name. Unfortunately I really disliked the boys name he chose and we changed to a name that we BOTH loved.
This is tougher but her idea of hyphenated names is not a nice one. I would try to leave it for a while as in pregnancy everything is emotionally charged.

So much judgement on this thread! Call your baby what you want, I find it really rude and offensive to dismiss someone’s name as ‘tacky’ or ‘lower class’.

All I would say is, as a teacher I have taught loads of kids with double barrelled first names and inevitably they just get called the first name, unless it’s quite a well known one such as John-Paul or Anne-Marie. I have also taught quite a few with double barrelled first and surnames which is such a mouthful for them to have to learn.

Would a compromise be for her to have the grandmother’s name as a first name and the name you both like as a middle name?

My DC have composite composite forenames (they're half Spanish), but hyphenated names in England nowadays do tend to be a bit bleurgh (especially anything ending 'Mae').

Can we not dial down the language a bit?

I am not a fan of double-barrelled names personally, and I absolutely think that both parents should agree on a name that they're both comfortable with. I therefore support the OP's wish to be able to veto a name that she doesn't like.

However, I'm saddened to see how many posters keep pushing the class narrative on this. Is it really necessary to talk about these names in terms of them being common, trashy, chavvy or whatever? Can't we at least try to get away from all that?

Honestly, I don't think Cambridge or any other university admissions department will care about an applicant's name. And any employer that seeks to screen out applicants with "lower class" names frankly isn't worth working for.

I accept that it was the OP who introduced this element of the discussion, but it's depressing that so many posters are agreeing with her because they perceive double barrelled names to be "common" rather than because she is a parent with an equal right to have input.

This is the best post anyone has made.

I'm sorry if anyone here is offended because they like double barrelled names but god I do think they're awful and common. I live in the North and some of the names at my child's primary school are bloody ridiculous.

People commenting about names like Sarah Jane and Anne Marie, these are a completely different type of name from Albie-Jaxon, a different generation, and you know it.

YANBU at all. Double barrel names are awful. Definitely prefer your suggestion of first name then middle name.

Bullied is a bit extreme. Loads of kids have double barreled names and I've never heard of anyone being bullied over it.

You both need to agree on the baby's name; if one of you freely choses to compromise on a name you don't love that's fine but if not, keep looking for one you both love.

That said, I can understand why she might think your explanation for not liking her choice is unnecessarily judgy and rude, especially if the grandmother she's honouring actually has a double barreled first name (like Peggy Sue in your example). Double-barrelled names (or multiple first names, no middle) are more common in some cultures than others; I don't find traditional ones like Jean-Luc or Anne Marie tacky at all so I guess that's a personal opinion. But you can just say I don't like Ellie Sue run together, or I don't like double barrelled names without making it a moral panic.

However, I'm also not sure how (apart from the birth announcement if you'll make one and the official school lists) people will know how you've split up Ellie Sue (assuming she's not proposing Ellie-Sue with a hyphen). I'm sure it varies by country but most birth certs and passports I've seen group first names together - so first name = Ellie Sue, middle name = Jennifer, last name = Smith-Jones and first name = Ellie, middle names = Sue Jennifer, last name = Smith-Jones will appear the same way on the birth certificate and passport (Surname: Smith-Jones, Forenames: Ellie Sue Jennifer) either way. And of course she can parse them as she likes on her CV.