Should a Brain Surgeon be up at night with a baby doing night feeds ?

[Mondaytuesdayhappydays]

Should a surgeon working full time, operating on patients each day be up with a baby at night doing 2/3 hourly feeds.

If they were operating in your child and had had only 3/4 hours sleep each night over the last fortnight would this be acceptable to you?

Absolutely bloody not. Of all the professions that needs its sleep, brain surgery is right up there!

No but they should earn enough to pay for a night nanny

And that’s the problem… I’m a surgeon and I operate on an artery to the brain. When I had DS 1 I was 33 and a registrar ( still doing surgery though) . DH had a bigger job than me. I went back to work at 10 months. DS was a toddler who slept badly during his second year. He would wake at 2 am and take hours to settle. We had a nanny / nursery place but there was no way we could afford a night nanny as well . I did on call at least once a week leaving DH sleep deprived. When I did a whole week of on call nights, my mum came down a few times to give DH a break .

We muddled through . DH would try to take the hit if we knew I was operating the next day. At one point I crashed the car on the way to work and took a week off. I was broken. You can’t take 2 years off during surgical training.

I’m sure there are loads of parents of young children muddling though the early years sleep deprived.
If I had a baby as a consultant when I am paid twice the amount I would pay a night nanny but women don’t have their babies in their 40s usually.

Why should they?

If both of you are brain surgeons then you should easily be able to afford a night nanny.

I came on to say exactly this. A neurosurgeon is earning enough to buy in help or condoms so there no kid to consider at all.

I went back to work as a hospital consultant (not neurosurgery) when my babies were both under a year. I worked full-time and it was so tough. However, my husband was working full time too. We shared the night wake ups. It never crossed my mind not to work and I did my best.

I am from the generation where we did 56 hour shifts. So at the weekend I could potentially go three nights in a row with very very little sleep. And that was not just me, that was everybody in my firm including registrars and consultants.

You do just get on with it. I remember assisting with operations as a junior after having not had sleep all night. The consultant was often very sleep-deprived too. It was hideous but we accepted it.

None of this is ideal, but you’d be surprised how much adrenaline gets you through the day. Though when it’s a chronic state, I am sure mistakes are made and it is not ideal at all.

However, I do not think you can get out of working because you have had disrupted sleep, due to a baby or anything else. There are many jobs with responsibility. A neurosurgeon is just one of them.

I would love to know the stats on male versus female doctor parents who expect to be let off newborn night wakings because of their job...

I don't want ANYONE massively sleep deprived operating in ANY safety critical role!

I delayed important orthopaedic surgery (on me😬) when I discovered the surgeon was only just off the plane from New Zealand the previous day.... (this was a luxury as my work at time gave me private medical insurance)

No but if the other partner is working as well, they should hire help.

No, and in my opinion nor should lorry drivers, construction workers, heart surgeons, welders etc. Anything that is already a semi dangerous or high risk job (to them or others). This goes for both men and women. If the mum was the brain surgeon and baby was up in the night when mum was back at work, then it should be dad

How much do you think a brain surgeon earns?? They’re not the Kardashians 😆

Where I live (not in the UK) there is one brain surgeon for our larger area. He is a private surgeon and our govt health system is not to be relied on. We have unfortunately had to deal with this guy with two separate family members in the last few years and know a few other people in our area who have needed him. I am always astounded at the hours he works and often find myself questioning how he functions at work, sees his family and manages to run a few marathons. Often he will still be doing hospital rounds late at night and to get a consult with him for anything other than an emergency is almost impossible. His rooms have 3 consult suites so he moves between them where the patients have been setup by his nurses to avoid delays between seeing patients (ie he moves rooms rather than patients being seen into his room individually). He has a good reputation and is evidently a good surgeon but I do wonder how long someone can maintain that level of attentiveness to his profession before he burns out. Some people are superhuman and called to it.

Doctor here (although not a surgeon, but understand how doctors job plans work), and assuming you are talking about UK.

Surgeons do not operate "every single day", they have planned theatre lists and then intermittent on calls where they will be operating on any emergencies.

The rest of the time they will have - ward rounds, clinics, admin sessions, delivering teaching, meetings.

I'd like to hear the context of the query: I don't believe that you are a surgeon, as you'd already know this. If you are a patient, it's odd that you know this level of detail about your surgeon.

No.
😱

Was also going to say after reading some of the replies on here… I think there are a lot of posters who are under some sort of illusion that everyone that they come across that may have an impact on their safety has had a good nights sleep.

Surely if the baby is still feeding that frequently someone could still be on maternity leave? So either the brain surgeon is the mum and could be on maternity leave. Or brain surgeon is the day and his partner could still be on maternity leave and therefore could do ALL the night feeds. When Dd was a baby I was breastfeeding so had to do all the feeds anyway.

But if she’d been bottle feeding and dh was back at work and I was on maternity leave I’d have done all the night feeds anyway! Knowing I could have a nap in the day if necessary.

I ebf until DS was 3. I was off on May leave until he was 9 months but then went back to work as a solicitor. He would not take a bottle at all. BF by 9 months was a matter of minutes if that, and DS and I coslept so I didn’t need to wake up fully. It would have been far more work to sterilise and prepare bottles, express or make up feeds and argue with DS in the middle of the night about it than it was just to bung a nipple in his mouth.

I’d be curious to know where they worked that they were having to operate every day? They usually have one day of theatre time. The rest is clinics, admin, ward rounds etc.

If they were on call they might have been at work all the day before, then most of the night when suddenly someone needs emergency surgery at 5am. Is that any less problematic for you than the night feed scenario?

Surgeons work insane hours sometimes.

The thing that strikes me with these ‘ooh, can’t possibly go without sleep’ threads is that babies aren’t the only thing that can cause a bad night.

So - no adverse weather, no loud parties if they live close enough for this to be an issue, no menopause, no just lying awake worrying about this and that, no being too hot or cold, no itchy skin?

We all have bad nights and plough through.

What do you think an NHS neuro surgeon gets paid?!

The mere suggestion is ridiculous.

More to the point, what do you think night nannies are paid!?

It really is the preserve of the extremely wealthy.

I remember having a discussion on a local Facebook group with some arse who accused me of driving on too little sleep… I had a newborn. What are we supposed to do? Hole up and not love until the child is three??

In answer to your question, no I would prioritise sleep for the working person however as soon as days off come around then the main parent gets the sleep.

As a consultant neurosurgeon, Between £105,000 and £139,000 a year.

Which is not a salary that sustains night nannies.