Should a Brain Surgeon be up at night with a baby doing night feeds ?

[Mondaytuesdayhappydays]

Should a surgeon working full time, operating on patients each day be up with a baby at night doing 2/3 hourly feeds.

If they were operating in your child and had had only 3/4 hours sleep each night over the last fortnight would this be acceptable to you?

I’m not sure if you’ve picked up on this, but all of that talk about rest periods and compensatory rest, and having to stop work if you haven’t had adequate rest, refers to rest time time being interrupted by work. It doesn’t refer to broken nights sleep caused by a baby.

So the picture that you’ve quoted does not describe work life balance, it simply describes the work part of that balance.

And as a previous poster has said, in practice even that is rarely properly adhered to.

Which contributes, like other person said, to the exodus from the NHS.

My husband is an airline pilot. His sleep is a huge priority in our family and it dictates a lot of our schedule.

If dh is flying the next day, I am on baby duty for the night. He’s a deep sleeper so we don't require separate bedrooms but I could see us doing that as sleep is such a priority. I start getting stressed if I know he hasn’t got 7+ hours.

It’s just the way the cookie crumbles. It led to resentment when I was in the thick of it with sleep regression/teething but dh needs his sleep. I will even do my best stepford housewife impression and have dinner waiting if he comes home very late and has an early start (best believe I don’t lift a FINGER when dh has blocks of days off).

Your experience is most unusual. Do you work in the UK? Because about a third of surgeons are women, from trainees right up to registrars and consultants (in some specialities a third of consultants are women), so generally speaking, it is absolutely not the case that the ‘vast majority’ of surgeons are married to stay-at-home-mums. Perhaps in 1970, but certainly not in 2025.

I think in any job where a lot of rest is required there needs to be a clear set of expectations around how to deal with a new baby, so that the parent doing said job can get the required sleep.

I know a few people in jobs like that, for the most part the mother did not work and so was able to sleep more in the day. Some had some help in for things like cleaning.

I know one brain surgeon, a woman, when she had children she took a good long maternity leave which she had to plan carefully for. Her husband did a lot of the parenting on a day to day basis when she went back to work.

Yes, I work in a private hospital in the UK - mainly with orthopaedic surgeons which heavily skews the balance. Out of our ~50 orthopaedic consultants only 3 are women. Where I work it is true that the vast majority are married to SAHMs, however some have gone back to work once the kids were a bit older.

I worked in the NHS for 20 years of my career (~1980-2000) and even then the vast majority of our surgeons at all levels were male. Females tended to gravitate towards specialties with a better work/life balance eg: GP, anaesthetics, paeds etc.

It's just a job and the realities of life have to be counternaced. In an ideal world noone with an important job would have un interrupted sleep but here we are in the real world

Good point @Psychologymam!

Makes sense, thanks for the context. 1980-2000 was a VERY different time for the profession. 25 years on and there are many, many more female surgeons. It’s about 1 in 5 at the consultant level, higher at registrar level and even higher at trainee levels (unsurprising given female students have outnumbered male students in medical school for years).

No. They can afford to hire a night nanny.

Did you read the thread?

If DIL does her share when NOT working the next day and gives your DD some time to rest earlier in the night as suggested above, your DD might find it makes nights easier. DH (not a bloody brain surgeon lol) has never done nights with either of our two. For DS2 I insisted on a separate room because a) you get more resentful watching someone sleep while you get up or BF for ages and b) it's easier having your own space with baby and not having to worry about the sleep and needs of another adult who isn't being much or any help anyway. It has made DH a bit sad but he can't have everything, and he likes sleep.

@Ireolu the DD can only be expected to put her own life and wellbeing to one side to a certain extent. She's not a facilitator for her wife's career, she's a person.

OP your daughter may be feeling this is the start of a slippery slope, she's probably wrong there judging by what you say, but remember how high-stakes everything feels when your first is small and how it feels like it's going to last forever.

No, of course they shouldn't.

They're operating on a super sensitive organ of patient's bodies. These patients are critically sick, and need to be given the best chance of the best healthcare outcome, which will affect them for the rest of their lives....

The brain surgeon obviously needs to be fully rested to perform optimally.

Excuse the pun, but it's a complete 'no brainer' !!

How do you think they manage on on-call weekends when they may not get ANY sleep at all?

I know they manage badly. A few of my friends who are surgeons have confided in me several times that work can be a 'war zone', particularly when in training jobs.

So, all the more reason, the surgeon should be as fully rested as possible going in to operate on critically sick patients imho.

P s. The one brain surgeon I know well, is a pretty exceptional individual. Most brain surgeons are in my experience, but they still need ~8hrs sleep to be at their best like the rest of the human race.

Not sure of who the brain surgeon is, but if it's the husband, then he's not going to be in the relationship much longer. It's ridiculous for a woman who allowed herself to become pregnant, to expect a man in a highly demanding profession to be a nursemaid, and he'll probably resent it. What's wrong with entitled women these days? What's so bad about being a mother and looking after the baby herself? Millions of women have done so without hesitation. If, however, she's also working full-time in a difficult job, something needs to be sorted out, like hiring competent help.

If a brain surgeon married another brain surgeon, or a pilot, should they not have DC at all? Someone has to deal with night wakings, and I can confirm that night wakings don’t conveniently stop at the end of maternity leave.

If you read the OP’s updates, the wife is the brain surgeon.

No

Yes, but they do typically ease off & become less frequent & less irregular through the night after that early manic phase....

Also 2 brain surgeons, will not be short of funds & options and extended unpaid mat leave &/or night time nanny assistance would be options to seriously consider for their child, themselves & the sake of their patients.

Only sensible solution is no female brain surgeons ;)

Ah, the Reform solution.

My husband is a GP and I didn't want him waking at night doing feeds etc. We did prepare a second bedroom for him to rest properly at night if he felt disturbed which he didn't use but he would still sit up and ask if I needed anything. He would occasionally rock baby to sleep if I got tired but wasn't expected from him. When you're making decisions and having any busy job you don't want to risk it. They can help on the nights they have the day off the following day etc

I suppose you could ask the same for general doctors/nurses/pilots/anyone that has other peoples lives in their hands. I would hope that by the time said brain surgeon went back to work they may get into a routine with a bottle etc but plenty of people do night feeds then go to jobs like that!

I'm guessing OPs daughter in law is not yet a consultant given her age and the fact OP said she is working her way up. You don't get called a neurosurgeon until you're at consultant level. There are a lot more lower level surgical doctors who work under the direction of the consultants and can be doing that for years and years before they actually become a consultant.

but plenty of people do night feeds then go to jobs like that!

Nope, sorry they don't.
Being a brain surgeon (& possibly eye surgeon) are very involved, high precision. highly demanding jobs requiring extremely high levels of accuracy where even the slightest slip of an instrument can impact their patient for life. The surgeon needs to come to work fully rested to give the best probability of the best care being given to patients on a crucial organ when they're very vulnerable & often critically ill.

Being a pilot is a responsible job also of course but in no way comparable. Ditto nurses/ other type of medic/ etc, etc etc

P.s. you can't remove a brain tumour on autopilot