Should a Brain Surgeon be up at night with a baby doing night feeds ?

[Mondaytuesdayhappydays]

Should a surgeon working full time, operating on patients each day be up with a baby at night doing 2/3 hourly feeds.

If they were operating in your child and had had only 3/4 hours sleep each night over the last fortnight would this be acceptable to you?

This. I did all the night feeds and my DH works in the office. Being sleep deprived driving is bad enough, it could be deadly.

Surgeons and parenting don’t go well with each other sadly

I think there are numerous jobs where sleep deprivation can have public health significance if it affects judgement. I would also suggest there are people not making optimum decision because of sleep deprivation everyday, but masking it to ensure they continue to work because of financial reasons or to ensure their career is not compromised.
This thread has opened a really thought provoking debate.
And the PP who said what about sleep deprivation and then looking after small children as a parent on your own. What support is there their?

Surely though if you are a surgeon you could afford to outsource? I'd get a nanny to come on the mornings so I could have a sleep in

Brain surgeons, lorry drivers, pilots should get a proper nights sleep before working. However they can do maximum night wakes going into days off, giving SAHP the respite they need.

Also staggering baby duty might meet everyone’s needs day to day dsy. Brain surgeon does any wakes between 8pm and 1am while SAHP sleeps. SAHP does any wakes between 1am and 7am while Brain surgeon sleeps

No, but they should be extremely grateful to their partner for picking up the slack and should be making sure they get adequate time to rest outside of their working hours. The brain surgeon chose to have a child and it's their responsibility to work with their partner to find an acceptable way to fulfil their parental duties and be safe at work.

And just to reiterate for context. Sleep deprivation is a recognised method of torture of which the most extreme method is intermittent deprivation. So wake up, bit of sleep, wake up, sleep not into REM, wake up, repeat, is recognised as torture. Unless it's your baby who can mitigate you being tortured with a 😃

@WhenICalledYouLastNightFromTesco agreed. As that newly minted band 5 bedside nurse who isn’t‘ ‘really ’ the same thing as a brain surgeon will be responsible for timely administration of drugs, infection control and recognising and responding to the deterioration of a dozen or so patients, single handedly and as often as not with a break snatched while writing notes. Not for her the highly skilled doctor who is a consultant anaesthetist to her left and competent Registrars and SEOs to her right, who will be alert and responsive to the merest millilitre of an inappropriate scalpel flicker and likely be wielding the frill themselves, as part of the team.
No, that nurse who is not, as you so rightly point out, not REALLY the same as your brain surgeon will be doing this solo, without a highly skilled team around her, without the non facing patient time to regroup and without the responsibility for only one individual at a time.
And just how well that consultant’s patient recovers after the operation, well just think whom that is down to- yep you guessed it that Band 5 nurse, whom you say will be sacked if she makes a serious mistake

Well when dh was doing his residencies many years ago it was perfectly usual for all of the doctors - including the surgeons - to do call and be have more disrupted sleep than that.

I don't know many surgeons that operate 7 days a week so there would definitely be some nights that they are not doing brain surgery the next day.

I never dissed nurses, the post is about brain surgeon's who might lack sleep - I wouldn't want one.

Yes, if the woman is on maternity leave anyway. She can nap when the baby naps and decide to stay home or use public transport rather than driving if too tired.
The surgeon could obviously help during night feeds when off work the next day, but if the situation is the surgeon is a single parent then realistically they should be asking for a different role until the baby is sleeping more rather than risking people's lives by operating whilst sleep deprived.

@WhenICalledYouLastNightFromTesco - the op was about sleep deprivation and responsibility as was my response. I saw no mention of whether or not you would wish to have a sleep deprived surgeon in yours

No they should not be. I would say they should be fully rested including staying elsewhere ahead of large surgeries if necessary.

I’m the brain surgeon wanted and agreed to have a child the brain surgeon should be helping out with the up bringing of the child. No matter their gender. If they’re female they should be off on maternity. If they’re male and already back at work they should still be helping, not every night but having a job doesn’t excuse them of all nightly duties. Working around days off etc is preferable.

Well I thought that this whole thread was about a sleep deprived surgeon. Excuse me

That doesn’t mean the SAHP must do all nights though. Night Nanny for a few nights a week would help and a brain surgeon can afford it. That’s part of why they do their job… because it’s paid well.

I don't think they should, no.

You are excused @WhenICalledYouLastNightFromTesco
Good night, sweet dreams and may all your nurses have had adequate rest

You do realise they are not necessarily stuck in theatres every day right? They should have days where work does not involve theatres. I’m guessing they would know their schedule, the current coverage and possibilities of what they may/may not have to do the next day when they make the decision whether to do night feeds or not.

PS- they are neurosurgeons.

Yes, and I thank each one of them. I've been fortunate that I haven't seen many of them, but I know they'll be amazing if I have to.

Women do those jobs too. Parents who both work do those jobs. These special exceptions are always only just for the men though.

We have friends, a couple, who are both surgeons, although not brain surgeons, and neither used their job as a reason not to look after their baby at night.

She probably still has enough money to pay for a night nurse. 🤷‍♀️

Do you also check they haven’t been out to dinner and had a few drinks? Stayed up late to watch an overseas game? It’s always only looking after babies that can’t be done in these discussions, not the fun things.