To want to burn one of each Religious text today?

[JustMakingAPoint]

Not because I hate or dislike them.

Not because I think burning books is good (I do not)

But because I should be able too. Because we have no Blasphemy laws and mean as it is, it’s not illegal and shouldn’t be.

And I want to do it to all of them to make the point it’s not about Islam, though it is provoked by today’s news.

This country is secular, blasphemy laws do not exist. And they shouldn’t.

if it takes every person burning a single religious book of their choosing to make the point - then I’m up for that.

Secular country does not mean there are no people of faith in it. It means we are not a theocracy.

Do you have copies lying around or are you going to buy them specially for burning @JustMakingAPoint?

Well I have no desire to burn any books, really, or to deliberately cause offence, but I agree that it should not be a criminal offence to do so.

Indeed that's the issue. Of course it's offensive to burn religious texts, but it beggars belief that anyone thinks it's a good idea to apply a different standard to Islam on its own.

100% this

For those interested in the case of the teenage boy who scuffed a copy of the Qu'ran, here is a link to a discussion of it on Anti- Social
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001jsr2

Its well worth a listen.

This was a disgraceful incident. The boy, who was autistic, had committed no crime at all. Others sent death threats to him and he was terrified. His Mother had to go and beg at a local mosque for the harassment and threats to her son to end. The police were there watching her beg and nothing was done to those threatening her son. The muslim speaker in the linked programme talks of how terrible it is that the Qu'ran was disrespected yet dismisses the death threats with a laugh as, ' ;'boys will be boys.' He had committed no crime, others were committing crimes against him with the threats and harassment. Yet his Mother is the one publicly begging for forgiveness for him, with police there, and the police and no-one else are holding in mind that he is the victim of crime, not the muslim community.

I imagine this is the sort of thing OP is referencing. This should not be happening in a secular country.

It seems to me there is something seriously wrong with the law, or the enforcement of it in this country when somebody faces criminal charges because they burnt a book, but no action has been taken against the people who made death threats against a fourteen year old boy for throwing a book.

Offending people by insulting their sincerely held religious belief, or even burning or desecrating books or other artefacts they hold sacred, is not very nice or kind. But to have free we must have the right to say things other people find offensive. It's terrifying that someone at the CPS thought this was an appropriate charge.

I'd join you OP, but I'd only burn a copy of the Koran, as I would be doing it with the explicit intent to offend the people who want to make offending them a criminal offence. As far as I'm aware only muslims are asking for that.

As long as the text/texts belongs to the person burning it (i.e. they have purchased them for that purpose) then anyone should have the right to burn them if they wish. I personally think book burning has sinister undertones, and I'd disapprove of it myself, but people have that right, so as long as the texts are rightfully yours, have at it - (and I say this as a religious person.)

However, if this is a reaction against blasphemy laws, then I do think it is unjust to burn the texts of religions that are NOT trying to limit people's freedom of expression and NOT trying to uphold blasphemy laws. Hindus aren't doing anything of the sort, so why burn the Vedas/Upanishads?

The numerous Pagan religions (of which I am one) are not trying to take away people's freedom of expression, so why burn texts on Celtic/Roman/Greek mythology, etc?

I mean, yes, you should have the right to do it - but WHY would you want to burn the texts of religions that AREN'T contributing to the issue this is in reaction to?

If they are out of date no one would want them but in any event they were mine to do what I want with anyway. why would I be morally obligated to pass them on?

Since when have books religious or other been public property? I can buy an entire library and set it alight if I wanted to (clearly I don’t want to!) but it is clear some people see books a pure chattels and others see them as a higher being because of what they contain. I am in the former.

I'm an atheist. I think religion can cause a lot of problems, but I'm not sure how non-believers deliberately seeking to disrespect believers is going to help

Listen to the anti-social programme. There are former Muslims for whom it is very important to them to have the freedom to ' disrespect' their former religion. Because they come from communities and countries where there are severe sanctions for doing so, including death. They do not want that in the UK. They do not want de facto Sharia law in the UK. They are disturbed when they see parts of the Muslim community enforcing Muslim religious standards and beliefs on the rest of the non-Muslim community. For these Ex-Muslims, being able to commit acts of 'disrespect' to the Qu'ran in the UK is an important political act of resistance against the cultural imposition of Islamic beliefs onto a secular society.

Stealth? No, out in the open Islamophobia. Tedious, depressing but sadly predictable

Would you care to make your case, or do you prefer to hide behind name calling?

i think that’s very unfair. this is a discussion of an actual charge against a real person so it will invoke discussion of the central issues.

it has opened up the debate on what society allows people to be critical on and what it doesn’t. I think everyone here has been respectful in general but comments like this are a bit like crying transphobia if anyone offers an option that someone doesn’t like.

My belief is we should be allowed to criticise/mock any religion without having any element of ‘phobia’ attached to it. I appreciate others may disagree but I don’t think it is fair to try and silence people having a completely reasonable discussion on the issue.

I agree with the sentiment of the OP. I don’t actually want to burn any books, but it is chilling that someone is being prosecuted because what he did with his own property offended someone else’s. It is the imposition of blasphemy laws and we should all be concerned about that

'Evokes'

'tantamount to'

'backdoor'

So - in summary - no blasphemy law - just rhetoric

I can't tell whether or not this post is satirical observation

"Yes, I’d imagine he was “just burning a book” in the same way people outside abortion clinics are “just praying”. They aren’t. They’re trying to intimidate women accessing healthcare"

Spot on.

It was appalling what happened to the autistic boy that dropped a Koran. instead the school should have used it as a lesson to castigate everyone in the parent body who thought action against the boy was fine. We must stop pussy footing around any religion at all that behaves like this including Christianity where it does so too of course.

The interesting point is if the UK police will do what happens in several other democracies in Europe where you can announce Koran or Bible burning and the police will come and ensure you have a secure cordon around you in public so you can engage in the lawful act. Sadly I think the UK does not yet do that but hopefully it will soon.

It really isn’t Islamophobia to not want de facto blasphemy laws. For any religion.

There’s a respectable intellectual tradition opposing blasphemy laws that far predates modern arguments over Islam. It was a battle last fought in the 1970s when Mary Whitehouse won a private prosecution against Gay News because of their publication of a poem offensive to many Christians.

That led eventually to the removal of the offence of blasphemous libel everywhere except Northern Ireland.

Wanting to keep blasphemy laws away is not driven by some irrational fear of Muslims. It’s an (imo) very important liberal principle that will manifest in different contexts at different times, but is foundational to any hope we may have of having a secular, successful, multicultural society.

Spot on @GeneralPeter

But again, not everyone agrees with the criminalising of people preying vaguely near abortion clinics. I personally couldn’t give too hoots if I had to walk past someone doing that. I would think they were a bit weird tbh. I don’t think it is something that should be criminalised - I think that takes it too far policing what is in people’s heads. Others disagree. I am very much on the libertarian side of these arguments and think that more rules create more disharmony and we have to learn it’s ok to be offended or just to ignore idiots rather than criminalise them.

What is the difference?

I disagree, as the number of Muslims grow in the UK (6% at the moment) I think that it will inevitably lead to more discussion about how much accomodation should be given to the Islamic Law.

There are areas that non-muslim's in the UK would disagree with that are followed in Islam i.e. gay rights, gender segregation, halal meat , etc. and it will become more of an issue as the population grows and takes their place in Parliament.
Just calling any discussion 'Islamophobic' is oppressive.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/05/02/pro-gaza-councillor-segregation-sexes-wins-seat-labour/

And that's one of the reasons that people are voting Reform.

You can’t even say you are English now without getting arrested…
On what planet?

…something about not being able to wear crosses at work …
Bullshit - it is not about "crosses", it is about jewellery... and depends on the circumstances https://www.masonbullock.co.uk/cross-at-work/

..then something about St George
😂😂😂You do know he was Greek ?

…and I’ll finish off with “supposed to be a Christian County”
Not sure which county you are referring to, Cornwall, Lancashire, Lincolnshire....? But I think you would find that most Christians would be very offended if you decided to burn the Bible , most Jews would be offended if you burned the Talmud... Burning books is not freedom of speech nor is it clever. It is the action of jackbooted thugs and idiots. I would have thought, this week of all weeks, that that point would be obvious. If one wishes to protest, protest, but burning books (or people) in order to cause deliberate offense is not protest. And I said the same when it was (some) Muslims burning books...

It's always nice to engage with the seriously deluded.