To just not really have my kids ‘ under control ‘ a lot of the time.. 3 and 5 years old

[jomek]

I don’t really know how to describe it in detail. I will try.

I just don’t know if it’s normal, or if I’m just not very good at being a mum.

But I just feel like my kids are often just NOT LISTENING to me at all.

the simplest things, become a massive thing.

like when I pick them up form school. They’re always running off, rolling around on the grass and just generally not listening. God forbid I try to have a conversation with a teacher or something, they just constantly run off. I am often left chasing after them.

it’s so embarrassing.

at home it’s similar with all sorts of stuff. The only way they ever listen is if I really shout. I hate to do it and they get upset. But they’re just running rings around me constantly. I try to get them to bed and they spend a good 10 minutes just racing around/ chasing each other laughing / running away from me.

I can’t take them anywhere by myself really as I just don’t trust them not to just wonder off. I take them to the shop after school sometimes and it’s like herding sheep. It’s all quite stressful. I just wish they’d listen.

am I expecting to much?

Why do you obey the law OP? Because there are consequences if you don't? The consequences never change, the legal system doesn't care how you feel about it. The law is consistent and reinforced consistently, that's the idea anyway. Your kids probably don't listen to you, because they couldn't care less about your authority. How can you expect them to grow up to be law abiding citzens, if you don't show them the consequences of ignoring authority? Every time you shout, or punish, or do whatever to lay the law down, you are teaching them to be respectful in society. If you do it consistently for long enough, they'll stop pushing the boundaries and listen to you. Assuming there isn't a medical reason for this not to work.

Actually I think this is nonsense. She isn't vulnerable and doesn't think her kids are badly behaved. I think many of us are at the end of our tether with parents and kids like this.

I said that when people say children are "spiritied" they're often unruly, destructive and spiteful children excused by their permissive parents.

Isn't dramatic. What's dramatic is the two little kids sprinting away from their screaming mother into the road.

This is an interesting take and especially the last paragraph.

my 5 year old for example is a better listener and more obedient than my 3 year old. When she was 3, she was pretty difficult too.

I think that she’s just grown out of some of the behaviours because she developed. I’ve always done the same things Since then. I never put it down to the what I did, but just that she got older.

there are consequences to their behaviour.

a lot of the things I do with the 3 year olds is distract and preempt. You cannot get into a power struggle about every little thing at this age, as it’s absolutely exhausting. I think he’ll just grow out of it too, like his sister did.

but despite what some posters have said, I do give consequences and I do have strategies that I use. They just don’t work as well as I would like. But I can see they’re working much better on my 5 year old as she’s grown and matured to follow them better.

also with the running off, they don’t really run off in busy streets etc. it’s more on the school grounds. I hold onto them when we are walking around streets and they also let me hold onto them. It’s more just in the school that they run off. When we go to the shop, I also hold onto them and have huge chats before we go in, that they either behave or they don’t get a treat. They wander a bit when they see stuff they like, but I call them back and it generally works ok, but it’s just very very stressful.

the whole pick up and routine is stressful. I wish I could just take them by their hands ( or they’d walk next to me ), get them into the car, drive home, get them out of the car in one go. They put their stuff away at least when we finally make it into the house, but the period before we get in is also annoying as they mess around at the car for ages. If I don’t let my 3 year old do that, I carry him in, crying and screaming - which probably lasts around 20 minutes I would say, maybe longer.

I sometimes don’t let him do these things and the tantrums are absolutely unbearable. Unless I can distract him to come into the house before it starts because I have something ‘ special ‘ to show him. And yes, it’s hard on my nerves to listen to the screaming.

I have followed through for several weeks at a time where I’ve been a complete hard arse with him, where I just confronted every issue that came up and let him have as many tantrums as he wanted. The behaviour didn’t get better, it just got worse and worse and he was exhausted and crying most of the day. It didn’t feel like it got me anywhere. So now I preempt and distract as much as I can.

https://www.peacefulparenthappykids.com/read/How-get-kid-listen

Obviously I'm not going to deny that children mature with age - but I think parents are too quick to write off their own improvements. Do you think that in the last 2 years of parenting, you haven't gotten any better at it?

I think it is inevitable that if we do anything with care and attention, we will improve over time and become more efficient etc. I'm sure some of your 5 year old's progress is down to you, and subtle improvements in your ability to parent.

After all, there are plenty of 5 year olds who are still very badly behaved despite being 5, and there are plenty of parents who come here to post for help, saying that their child's behavior has gotten worse as they age from 2-5, so it certainly isn't a given that at this age, older = better behaved.

I know what you mean about the power struggle though - it can be exhausting. I remember an educator presenting the idea of having minimal but absolutely strict rules as a solution to that. The idea being that you try and whittle down your red-lines to the smallest amount that will reach the standard of behavior you require. Those rules are then enforced 100% of the time without exception. Everything else though, is more free and doesn't come with punishment/consequences/discipline.

Doing so is hard though, especially if other people aren't keeping your consistent rules. How are the other responsible adults in your kid's lives? Grandparents? Teachers etc.? It can be really hard to solve these problems if you are being consistent and strict for 7 weeks, but during that time another influence is giving in to them.

This is so naive. It all worked so well on my dd and I too was the smug parent. I tried all the same things with ds and it fails utterly.

Two close in age def get each other going. Mine are twins and it was chaotic under 5.

Ah OP your posts bring back so many memories for me!! Mine are 14, 15 and 17 now but I remember those times of running after them and feeling like I was trying to control out of control animals.
You sound like a great mother and I did get a laugh at what your 5 year old said about not hearing you!
I remember my boys wrestling in the aisles of the supermarkets, they were so caught up in having fun that they didnt see it wasnt appropriate.

I had to be strict in those situations (I did at times leave the shopping there and go home, or walk out of restaurants or play areas if they wouldnt behave). If you follow through on these punishments they will eventually get the message.

I also made sure they had places we could go where they could run wild and get their energy out - the woods, parks etc.

You just have to keep reiterating that in certain situations they have to control their behaviour because it impacts on others eg running and messing about in public places. Try to remain calm and firm.

My boys on their own were so easy but when they were out together, the wildness started. I do think that having them so close in age does make it more difficult to control them. It will get easier as they get older and they understand more. Hang in there.

OP , I’m a mum of teens and SM to an adult , you aren’t doing a bad job at all with strategies and consequences in place , parenting is hard and tough work and we all sometimes fail some of the time , nothing in life is perfect . What you are not doing is raising crushed doormats and that is a good thing . The world is only getting more difficult and needs people with a bit of spark - I particularly laughed at your DCs comment about finding it hard to listen as she likes doing what she wants to do - don’t we all ?

Sounds very much like my DS (6). He is likely ND and we're trying to get him assessed for ADHD. However we've found the best system for him is his 'star jar' (you can buy them online). Basically a reward system, but stars can be taken away as well. Doesn't take long for them to realize the consequences when they don't listen and then you can dangle the 'if you don't listen I'm taking a star away'. We let him choose his reward once he fills up the jar. He earns stars for helping out around the house / good listening etc.

I found two things worked. The first was stopping the talking. So if you want them out of the car, or you want them to go somewhere or do something, you simply pick them up and go. No chance to say no. If you’re at the school get hold of their hand as soon as you can. The other thing is praise . I used to pretend to phone someone they loved, could be grandparents, teacher, football coach. This would be in the child’s hearing but when the child thought I didn’t know they could hear. I would say “ Do you know, I am so happy with John, I think he must be growing up now, because he’s so good when I pick him up from school! He used to run away all the time but now he’s getting better every day. His teacher thinks it’s because he’s a big boy now. When he was doing it all the time it was because he was little and too young to understand.”
At bedtime I would pick the most difficult problem and say “Do you know, I’m so happy with you because today you stood by me for two minutes when I was talking to your teacher. “ If he said “No I didn’t, I ran away “ I would say “Did you? Silly Mummy! It must have been the other day you did that! I know it made me feel very happy and proud of you, whenever it was!”

Not vulnerable in the sense of being "a vulnerable member of society." I said OP was being vulnerable - meaning that she has come here expressing feelings and insecurities about parenting, which leave her open to attack. I was pointing out that you have attacked - not in what you said (you are entitled to your views on parenting - and she did ask for advice), but in the unkind and belittling way you said it. And she clearly does think her kids are badly behaved - that's the point of her post.

I am also at the end of my tether with children who misbehave and the parent does nothing about it. I see it all the time, and can't wrap my head around it. But that isn't what the OP is describing at all. She talks about a variety of things she has tried, and is clearly thoughtful about how she parents. But with her particular children at this particular point in time, it sounds really really hard.

Mine behaved in public as I was alone with them a lot and we don't drive so on public transport a lot - if they couldn't behave thus meaning I couldn't keep them safe then we couldn't go out. So it was a priorty that I always enforced.

Coming out of first primary school was chaos so they stayed close walking because I insisted- we'd stop moving till they complied and I would shout if needed - having them stay close was a safety issue. We did leave a few places when they couldn't behave and few times if they couldn't behave on train we'd walk back despite everyone being tired - if they fought watching tv it went off and them to their rooms.

We still had stressful trips and days when things were just shit behavioral wise - you just stick to your lines and hope next day is better. The hard thing is not to give in once because next few times it is then worse.

I tried to set them up for success - so if I needed them to stay still - medical appointment or school play we'd go to park or have long walk or both and have distractions on hand if needed. Dsis single parent with ADHD child tried to do same so sometimes before and after school he's just taken to field with dogs or playgrounds to run of energy. I was always surpised at parents complaining their kids couldn't sit still and it turned out they'd been in front of TV then put in car and then just expected to be still with no distractions but annoying parent later.

Parenting a marthon not a sprint we all have bad days and make wrong choices or have situations we could handle better.

The afternoon car mess around - is it all the external noise and moevment and transition from one setting to another - could getting them together and waiting a bit for everyone else to clear out - then getting to car help reset the routine? If they are in the car does the messing round really matter - can you make a game of getting ready or fake race them to get in or out? Depending on your timetable could you pop to park or libary before heading home - something to break bad habits currently?

Kids need to feel and know different emotions. You've hurt her feelings, maybe now she'll think before she acts up.

Why would you apologise? Your dd didn't listen , you shouted, that's her consequence. She's clearly told you that she doesn't want to listen to you. She's much happier doing what she wants, when she wants. All very well and good when she's an adult. But she's not an adult, she's 5.

Holding hands for instance. It's not a question, it's not a request, it's a rule.

Star charts, behaviour expectations before you go anywhere - repeat, repeat, repeat. Don't do anything until the kids are listening to you.

You don't know that though. You havent seen the OP in action. What I know I've seen are unruly kids disrupting the lives of those around them while their timid parents insist they're doing all they can (but won't say no to them in case their feelings get hurt).

Anyone who has taken the trouble to come here and discuss their children's behaviour and respond thoughtfully to some of the suggestions is not someone who lets their child run wild and doesn't care about the impact on anyone else.

To the PP who said about their children sitting quietly in one particular situation and looking like mum of the year and half an hour later there is chaos... I definitely recognize that! One of mine is an angel at school, teachers fall over themselves at parents' evenings to tell me how polite, kind, helpful etc he is. I am not convinced they actually believe me that he is really loud, boisterous and dramatic at home and constantly winding up his brother to the point that I am still sometimes tearing my hair out at mealtimes and school holidays/weekends. (I'm confident he's not ND and masking, in case anyone jumps to that conclusion, just has a LOT of energy and exuberance... but has learnt to control it when needed).

Ha yeah it is! Mine is shy and yet gets in totally bonkers moods and nothing works. Is highly emotional too, especially when it’s just us - so we are going through it too

So I haven't read all the replies as I can probably predict alot say you aren't parenting correctly....your children are just naughty, stop pandering to them etc etc. I always get this when I post anything about my child/ren not being a 'normal' well behaved child constantly.

But I wanted to say, I defiantly find with my child at school they have a mad hour after finishing school. He doesn't listen, doesn't care what consequences, purposely does the opposite of what I ask etc. Eventually after alot of probing and asking questions (to him and teachers), I realise he has spent all day sitting quietly and behaving. Doing his work and doing what he is told. Not being able to think and do things for himself when he wants. For a child that struggles with sitting still (he is a massive fidget) and always wants to make people laugh by messing around, it is a massive ask of him. He needs a good hour run around and to be left alone to decompress.
I now have changed how I deal with him straight from school. We go straight to the park for an hour most days, he lets off some steam and then is a more pleasant person. He has a snack straight from school. This had a massive knock on effect of with other times of the day (Mornings particularly better as well)

I would not be apologising for shouting

Sometimes their teacher may have to shout. They need to get used to it (as long as they know why)

So I would just explain that you had to shout as they clearly weren't listening, if they listened, you wouldn't shout. It's consequences

But I'd try the calm, firm voice as long as possible. Till you can't

And actually, have you tried a raised, stern voice rather than a shout?

Everything @NJLX2021 wrote. I had a 5 year old and two two year olds at a comparable stage to you OP, and I prioritised (and still do, a few years on) listening and good behaviour. There is plenty of free time to roll around, be silly and be self-directed, but from day dot if I say we are going / stop doing x / start doing y they listen because there is a clear consequence if they don't. They now know that if I say something I mean it. The other side of that is that if I say something nice/in their interests, they know I mean that too. They can rely on me. There will be screaming and tantrums while you get that in place but better now than when they are 16.

I could have written your OP word for word (mine are also 3 and 5!). The only thing that works for me is asking them to do something and then counting backwards from 5.

"Go to the bathroom so your DF can brush your teeth."
"No! I'm just doing X/Y/Z"
"Five. Four. Thr--"
Child scurries off.

It's the only thing I can do to manage them when they get hyped up (which is almost always).

One other thing now that I think back to those ages - put in place consequences for behaviours where necessary but try to do it without giving attention to those behaviours. Really hard to do in practice but maybe something to think about. I gave up on trying to do the naughty step (as in Supernanny) or other forms of time out because it just ended up with child having my undivided attention while I tried to get them to stay in the time out! Putting in place the consequence then ignoring worked much better. While of course trying to notice them being good and giving attention to the good behaviours. I do actually quite like the general approach of Supernanny in terms of setting clear boundaries and being your child's parent not their friend. Not all her strategies will work with all children but maybe useful if you need a reminder that it's ok to be firm sometimes. Or even just to show that other people struggle with their children's behaviour too (obviously it's set up for the narrative though so take any dramatic improvements with a pinch of salt...).