To want Brexit be reversed

[BeKookySheep]

I don’t normally post about politics, but this has been playing on my mind for a while. I wasn’t super political before the referendum — just a mum trying to do her best for her family. But now, years later, I really feel like Brexit hasn’t delivered what we were promised. And I think we should seriously start talking about reversing it.

My eldest is 16, really bright, and had dreams of studying languages and maybe doing a year abroad. We looked into Erasmus a while ago, but that’s gone now. And the cost and hassle of studying or working in Europe is so much higher now. She asked me, “Why is it so much harder for us than it was for you, Mum?” And honestly, I didn’t know what to say. It hit me hard.

Everything’s more expensive — our food shop has gone up loads, and don’t even get me started on getting certain things for school packed lunches! Little things, but they add up. My brother runs a small business and he's drowning in paperwork just to send stuff to Ireland. And a friend of mine left the NHS because she felt so overstretched — they can’t recruit enough staff anymore, especially from Europe.

Brexit hasn’t made anything better. It’s just made life harder in so many small but important ways. And if something clearly isn’t working — and is limiting our children’s futures — why shouldn’t we talk about changing it?

We tell our kids it’s okay to admit when something’s not right and make it better. Maybe it’s time we took our own advice.

Would love to hear if others are feeling the same. Has Brexit made life harder for your family too?

I couldnt agree with you more. The problem is how we reverse Brexit?

People like Farage completely misled the country with their total fiction that was Brexit. Never made sense and never will. Now the reality is biting as remainers predicted it would.

yes agreed but.... Brexit has just aggravated these issues.

Brexit has cost the economy billions -

https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-uk-economy-almost-ps140billion-smaller-because-brexit

I don't think anyone feels they have a right to "mind" that say Australia is difficult to emigrate to do they?

People know if they want to be able to live/work/stay in Australia - they have no right do it. Australia has to be convinced that you will be a benefit to their country and meet the barriers to entry that they set - otherwise it is a no. Seems perfectly sensible to me.

It’s nice to have something to blame everything on though. Makes things simple. Late for work? Brexit. Reversed into someone’s car? Sorry, Brexit. Contraception failed? Yeah, that was Brexit.

Or like Brexiters blamed everything on the EU when we were still in?...

Referenda are not a one time thing.

All immigration that takes us over a net balance of zero (numbers of people leaving versus numbers arriving roughly) as we have zero excess of housing.

I am reading today about the government looking at visas for people who are most likely to overstay e.g. come as students and later claim asylum. I've chatted to someone myself whose family has come on a student visa from Nigeria. They were totally open that the person "studying" in no way needed the degree and was highly educated in Nigeria but it was a route into Britain for the whole family.

So what are you saying in response to my question? That you would stop all immigration? In all categories?

Or would you prioritise between different groups? I'm interested in which groups you would prioritise over others.

The UK already does this, you need to apply for a visa to come and live, work, study here.

If you want to stop all immigration, will you also stop all emigration?

Immigration becomes such an loaded issue but the difference between 200k or 700k or net migration at 0 isn't a moral thing it's an economic issue.

Other countries do seem more pragmatic over how they benefit.

I get the housing and space argument plus I don't think we can just keep going up indefinitely, where are we in a few decades then, with a bigger problem? But I get the economic hit especially for universities and the impact on care or health.

If I had the authority I would copy the Australian model and prioritise people where we had a genuine skills shortage and they had a genuine skill.

Not care work or similar (I work in care) and while it is important to be compassionate etc it's not a skill that we need to hunt around the world for.

To fill care/healthcare assistant vacancies we just need to offer people pay that is fair and motivating versus being on benefits/working in retail etc. At the moment people with kids can work a couple of days and be topped up to a higher salary than they could hope to earn working full time in these jobs.

I think it is important to distinguish that people do not come to Britain to work in care. They work in care to come to Britain. These are very different things and for most as soon as they have citizenship/don't need a sponsor they will be out of care as quick as they can for better paid and more prestigious work. They do not aspire for their children to work in care. Trying to fill social care vacancies with international labour is like trying to fill a bucket full of holes.

I also do not think we can afford to bring people's older generation relatives over. We all know that a dementia diagnosis for example can result in several years stay in a care home at over 1k each week. We can't afford to nurse the world's elderly - it is difficult enough to nurse our own. People from another country that want to take care of their elderly parents can choose to go to their original country to care for them if they choose.

If I had the authority I would copy the Australian model and prioritise people where we had a genuine skills shortage and they had a genuine skill.

Like the UK's skilled workers visa scheme?

Care visas are a large part of what we grant. I think @Winter2020 makes some good points. Whether we want to replace that care ourselves by doing it or paying more for it is another question.

Perhaps - I'm not familiar with the rules of that. If they are actually highly skilled and it's not possible to train or employ British people then yes - up to the limit of net zero immigration - entries = leavers.

If the "skilled worker visa scheme" includes all the care workers and general health care assistant /other jobs that you can learn to do in a few weeks or months then no. I work in care and it is not a skill we need to hunt the world for. The people coming from abroad to work in care are not "highly skilled" (though they might be very nice). No "skilled visas" should be neccessary for any job that someone can train up for in a few weeks or months.

Referenda are not a one time thing.

@MrsSkylerWhite how long should we wait for the next EU referendum? Also, if there is such enthusiasm to rejoin, do you think the government will organise another one before the next election?

What about both, better wages and working conditions would attract more UK workers.

It hasn’t delivered what was promised because the civil service and government don’t actually want to deliver it, so have intentionally implemented it poorly because they don’t want it to work.

Its weaponised incompetence on an international level and an appalling example of politicians who would rather be proved right than do what is best for their country

bloody Boris Johnson got it done with his oven ready deal!
He won the 2019 General Election on that promise!

How did you want it delivered?

I am not sure why that is an issue? Would be migrant chooses a specific route that increases their likelihood of being able to move to the UK.

I did the same when I moved to Australia.

What was promised and how are the civil service and government blocking it?

The main thing is Boris closing the economy down for a year and a half and paying millions of people's wages, have you forgotten that little thing called the pandemic?

I never said I want to stop all immigration. I said we should aim for net zero immigration. People leaving the country should roughly equal people arriving - we have no spare housing!

So (as pic attached) in 2023 the number that left the UK to emigrate was around 480,000. You could use the number of people emigrating one year to set limits for immigration the following year. You would also want to keep track of Brits returning and factor them into your numbers, as well as people arriving by small boats/in lorries etc .

Unplanned humanitarian help such as helping x many people fleeing war in Ukraine or x many leaving Hong Kong you might need to go into an "overdraft" and allow more people in reducing ordinary visas the following year to compensate if we had gone over target.

This would ensure that when a government pledges to build a million extra homes for example that eases pressure on housing rather than not even keeping up with new arrivals and housing being ever more squeezed- and expensive!

Edit to add @TopPocketFind
Also to say whether other countries want to allow Brits to go and live there and the rules for that is up to them.

You know the Australia skills shortage route also takes in people like carers, hairdressers and florists right? It’s not just highly paid professions. A lot of people like to cite Australia without realising what their system is actually like (they also have exceptionally high rates of immigrationn- higher than ours.

As for carers - it’s not merely the money. It’s that it is tedious, unpleasant and dirty and most people just have zero interest in that kind of work. No matter what the salaries. And we need carers who WANT to do it otherwise the quality of care is abysmal.

Care workers are included in Australia’s Skills Shortage list FTR.

I absolutely take your point on people doing care work to come to Britain but we need to think about how we get the number of carers we need each year given how few people want to do it.