Crime statistics by country of origin

[Zebedee999]

The government is proposing to publish crime statistics by country of origin.

A few weeks ago I mentioned some statistics from other European countries (and in fact the UK) showing that sex crimes against women by men of certain countries are 40 times those of the indigenous British. I got called racist (the stats are by country not race) and of course the stats were removed as racist.

Personally I think women's safety should be the overriding priority and such statistics should be used as part of a process to determine who can move to the UK. Why allow in men who statistically will carry out 40 times the sex crimes of the indigenous population? Let in women by all means.

I am genuinely interested why my view is racist when to me it is simply prioritising women's safety. AIBU to want immigration processes to prioritise women's safety?

We’ve already had the apartheid comparison. And men are people to and have human rights…

I do understand it. A refugee is fleeing their country. In the Ukraine it was because of war, in Hong Kong because of oppression etc

Therefore the country of origin is why someone seeks refuge. They have a well founded fear of persecution.

It's not because the UK discriminates against every single country in the world bar Afghanistan. It's because people are fleeing Afghanistan that they are seeking refuge.

Most white people in Britain (with the exception of Eastern Europeans who mostly came from places like Poland after Poland joined the EU in 2004) are descended from the Celts or Anglo Saxons (or both) who have been in the British Isles for over a thousand years. You can't get more indigenous than that!

It’s not only comparing it to British people - it’s comparing it to other countries of origin.

the stastics upthread show men from Syria where SIGNIFICANTLY more likely to commit sexual offences than men from other countries of origin. Sounds like something to think about.

and rather than just ignoring this and pretending it’s not happening far better for proper informations and leadership.

Cologne was a significant turning point in German politics and the mismanagement of resonable
concerns is a dig ficant factor in shifts to the far right

You don’t get it. The UK government says you only have this spot for a residency visa if you come from this one country. It is discriminating against people from all other countries when it decides who gets this spot. So the UK does discriminate according to where people come from. The point is that the UK makes lots of decisions about what countries it wants people to come from - so it’s hardly ground breaking to say where it doesn’t want men coming from. Country of origin is an entirely legitimate reason to discriminate when it decides who it lets in.

It looks like Milo has suffered discrimination in the way we use it socially - meaning negative prejudice.

Milo isn't getting that discrimination actually means "telling the difference between" and making choices on that basis. Vegetarians discriminate between plant-based and animal-derived foods, in order to choose their preferred diet.

You're trying to explain that we already discriminate between applicants based on their country of origin, but Milo isn't hearing you because "discrimination" is a bad thing in Milo's mind.

But Milo discriminates all the time, you couldn't get through life without doing it.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your objection, Milo. I'm somewhat baffled by your objections otherwise.

That’s why I ask why Labour are doing this. What will they do with the information? It seems to be a gift to other parties.

Exactly.

Milo also doesn’t accept that it can be reasonable to discriminate against men to safeguard women and girls

We're just going around in circles. I'm explaining the law and you're repeating the same tired irrelevant argument.

i understand that you don't want Muslim men coming into the country. You have a long and pure heritage and they don't belong here.

Unfortunately for you, that's not how the law works. You can only make a claim for asylum in the UK and when you make a claim, the HO cannot discriminate against you. Secondly, you can't deport someone to a country where they could be in danger of persecution.

I understand that you don't care if these men are tortured or killed but they're protected by the law.

Can someone say how people are returned if they are imprisoned for a sexual crime

How do we circumvent international law for that?

Yes completely misunderstood. I'm trying to explain that a person claiming asylum is protected by law from discrimination.

Can you translate?

Fuck me, I've been driven to look this up ...

Public authorities carrying out immigration or nationality functions are not required to have due regard to the need to advance equality of opportunity in relation to age; religion or belief or race (where race means nationality or ethnic or national origins). However, they are required to have due regard to the fostering of good relations ...

The Equality Act includes exceptions which mean that certain immigration decisions can be made in relation to: disability; race (where race means nationality or ethnic or national origins); and religion or belief, without being unlawful under the Act. Common examples are: decisions on entry clearance, and additional questioning ...

There are also exceptions which allow direct or indirect nationality discrimination, or indirect discrimination based on place of residence/length of residence, when it is done to comply with another law or ministerial arrangement ...

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/general-duty-faqs-gb#doesthepublicsectorequalitydutyapplytomigrantsrefugeesandasylumseekers

Many many thanks

uhoh Milo

We're talking about asylum seekers.

Can someone say how people are returned if they are imprisoned for a sexual crime
How do we circumvent international law for that?

My understanding is we can't, if they're at risk of being killed in their home countries, or the home country won't take them back.

Happy to be corrected if I've got this wrong though.

I mean Milo - have you just read that summary of equality act obligations to migrants refugees and asylum seekers and concluded that …. It is not about asylum seekers.

you are trumpesque in your approach to public policy

I look forward to this data coming out. And not a second before time.

If people are uncomfortable with what is being reported then clearly there is a massive issue.

As a young Sikh girl, I was taken to a Sikh temple and informed that Muslim men were targeting Sikh girls - getting them drunk, buying them gifts and then blackmailing them with pics etc. This was YEARS before the media reported on the raping gangs. THE AUTHORITIES WERE TOLD. But nooo, the police couldn’t investigate cause rAcIsM. Meanwhile girls in care were having their lives ruined. SHAME ON THEM

I say this a British Indian.

Let’s call a spade a spade. The UK is a very special place - we have freedom, safety, opportunities - please God can we protect it.

Your link doesn't mean anything. Asylum seekers are protected under the the ECHR, The Refugee Convention, the UDHR, The Human Rights Act and many other laws and instruments.

When I talk about the principle of non discrimination it means all people are treated equally regardless of factors like sex, disability, religion, nationality,race sexual orientation or age.

You cannot therefore reject an application for asylum because you don't want Muslims. Asylum seekers cannot be discriminated because of religion. You cannot reject a claim because the applicant comes from a certain country because asylum seekers cannot be discriminated because of nationality. And so on.

Milo you are the only person on this thread who has mentioned Muslims.

But anyhoo - tell you what - why don’t you give the equality and human rights commission a call on Monday - point out that they are incorrect in their guidance on the law - and then you can upload the link when they correct it. I have no doubt they would welcome you letting them know. Sounds like a pretty major screw up!

the stastics upthread show men from Syria where SIGNIFICANTLY more likely to commit sexual offences than men from other countries of origin. Sounds like something to think about.

To think about, and then do what exactly? Publish the figures so that people with no understanding of base rates or relative risk can be made afraid of brown people (and their mates can pre-emptively "protect" them, perhaps), or just deport all Syrian men regardless of whether they have committed a crime?

Men, as a whole, are SIGNIFICANTLY (it's scarier in big letters — VASTLY would be correct, too) more likely to commit offences of all kinds than women. Murders, sexual assault, robbery, the lot. What are going to do about men?

It doesn't say in the link you provided, that asylum seekers can be lawfully discriminated against while processing applications.

You brought up the grooming gangs.

Men, as a whole, are SIGNIFICANTLY (it's scarier in big letters — VASTLY would be correct, too) more likely to commit offences of all kinds than women.

So why would women want more men who are even more dangerous, to add to their existing risks?

Yes when I was growing up I was very much aware of prejudice and bigotry between Indians and Pakistanis.

Hindus / Sikhs vs. Muslims. Seems like you are regurgitating it here.

Your parents telling you all these stories and people in the temple regaling those “muslims hordes targeting nice Sikh girls” does not mean it was happening.

Oh so it didn’t happen?? Very bold claim to make considering there are MANY accounts of Muslim men targeting sikh women. They then switched to white women.

Bit of a coincidence I was warned of grooming, Sikhs got organised then the scandal emerged years later.

“It’s not happening”. It’s exactly what said about the raping gangs for years.

How fucking dare you

Your parents telling you all these stories and people in the temple regaling those “muslims hordes targeting nice Sikh girls” does not mean it was happening.

Ah, the whole "grooming gangs are a dog whistle" stance, so popular among the left.