Page 11 | Accused of racism by client

EdithBond · 03/05/2025 13:06

BoredZelda · 03/05/2025 12:21

My daughter is disabled. She has to remind me very occasionally that something I’ve said is ableist. Before I had her, I was totally unaware of abelism, and how much it was institutional and internalised. But when you think about how society is set up and how it excludes disabled people as a matter of course, it’s really easy to see how that happens. When she was about 2 and it was clear she wasn’t going to walk independently, we focused entirely on how we could make her walk, it was all consuming, everything was about getting her on her feet. Then we had the best neuro consult and who said our only job was to help her be, “the best her that she can be.” Our focus shifted from walking to mobility. How was she going to navigate the world, which wheels would be the best ones to help her. It was eye opening, because until then, we thought that walking was the only goal, not realising that having wheels would give her more independence, not less. That’s a very abelist view. When she was a bit older I would only use the language I thought I was the best language because I’d read up on it. When she was old enough to ask what she thought was appropriate, she had a totally different view on what was best to use for her. It wasn’t up to me to decide she was wrong.

When OP says she can’t be racist because her children are mixed race, it’s the same as me saying I can’t be abelist because I have a disabled child. It’s so not the case. The only thing I can claim is, I am not deliberately or intentionally abelist, but sometimes I might lack an awareness that what I’m saying is abelist.

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Beautifully put ❤️

JHound · 03/05/2025 13:39

stample · 02/05/2025 20:17

I work and deal with clients daily, I spoke to a regular client being polite and civil, and they too were civil back only to get home and email my manager saying I had implied a racist remark towards them. My manager knows this was not the case and responded back. For reference I am white with black children and the client was black (they wouldn’t know anything about my personal life)
AIBU to mention this when I next see them, obviously apologise if they thought what I said was racist and then to say my family are black…

Why does you having mixed (not black) kids mean you can’t be racist?

Saying that is just going to cement in your client’s mind what they initially thought of you.

It’s just another way of saying “I’m not racist - I have black friends”

JHound · 03/05/2025 13:41

stample · 02/05/2025 20:38

Genuinely it’s care work for SEND individuals. I gave general feedback about eating habits and mentioned they had eaten watermelon.
The client in person smiled and said ok but in the email said the individual doesn’t like watermelon and what was the carer implying

Had they eaten watermelon?

JHound · 03/05/2025 13:42

Sometimeswinning · 02/05/2025 20:48

Of course she’s not racist if her children are black. She’s far more considerate of what’s being said than some random white person with no black children.

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You can be racist and have mixed race children.

EdithBond · 03/05/2025 13:44

bluesinthenight · 03/05/2025 11:47

This.

I don't know how, but I think we need to take the heat out of these discussions. Whenever I have pointed something out to someone they have become defensive and doubled down and said that I am accusing them of racism (even though I have never actually used that word against anyone because it is so loaded). They get so angry that they end up being the victim. And that's a real problem.

I once asked an organiser why there were no black people invited to a particular work event and they said that my asking the question made them feel "attacked". Of course they did. By their own guilt. But it was worth facing their angry defensiveness because the following year a few black people were part of the event.

It was probably an "oversight" on their part, but still...

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100% agree.

But the only way to take the heat out of it is for people to be less fragile and more resilient in the face of challenge. Polite challenge should be encouraged and appreciated, as it makes us all (and therefor our society) more conscious, inclusive and enlightened.

@stample I know you probably didn’t think too deeply about it. And you appear keen to deal with this openly, kindly and sensitively, which is why you’ve asked for opinions. But the thread title of ‘accused of racism’ is a good illustration of this point. It’s nuance of language. They didn’t ‘accuse’ you. They didn’t suggest you’d committed a crime. They pointed it out. Presumably, in the hope of raising awareness. They wanted to explain how it made them feel and be heard and considered.

If someone challenges our actions or language as racist (or sexist, ableist etc) it doesn’t help to be defensive, fragile or feel accused or attacked. Because that makes people feel unsafe or wary to point it out or challenge it. It’s basically DARVO. The person who’s been racist ends up seeing themselves as the ‘victim’.

The best response is to be open and ask why. And ideally to educate yourself and be aware, because people shouldn’t have to point it out in the first place. It’s not good enough to take the (genuinely ignorant) attitude of ‘I don’t understand racism/sexism/disability, so Black people/women/disabled people need to explain it to me’. It’s not their job: to constantly educate and explain. It’s draining. It’s triggering. It can feel risky. If we want to be anti-racist etc, it’s on us to educate ourselves. There are plenty of books, podcasts, videos, events, art on the subject.

It’s not a blame game. The aim is for everyone to feel considered and included.

CaptainFuture · 03/05/2025 14:14

Sorry @EdithBond I don't fully agree with that. So what you're coming across as saying is "you absolutely are a racist and wrong, whatevers happened. Am also not going to tell you what you've done/said.... its on you to work it out, you need to stop being fragile and defensive and accept, I'm right, you're wrong, whatever you do, and make sure you grovel about it"?

GoodCharl · 03/05/2025 14:34

How utterly ridiculous. You stated what the person ate. You shouldn’t have to watch your words. You are not racist. I would not apologise but if it does come into conversation just say- thats what they ate. Some individuals enjoy finding minute faults with others and causing shit

InWalksBarberalla · 03/05/2025 14:41

And ideally to educate yourself and be aware, because people shouldn’t have to point it out in the first place.

I'd never until today heard anything whatsoever about watermelons having racist connotations. And you can't expect anyone to research the list of foods their clients eat in a given day before noting them down - and then - what deliberately omitting any if they have any questionable past. It's ridiculous. And yes the OP has a right to be upset about being accused of being racist for doing her job in the expected way.

JHound · 03/05/2025 14:47

The comments on this thread though….it’s like reading a discussion on a Men’s Reddit forum about sexism.

latetothefisting · 03/05/2025 15:02

TheCountofMountingCrispBags · 02/05/2025 21:33

obviously apologise if they thought what I said was racist and then to say my family are black…

That is not an apology, it's a cop out. In any situation (not specifically this one) if one's words or actions offend someone, even if we did not mean them to do so, you cannot invalidate their feelings by saying 'if they thought'. It implies that they are in the wrong for misiterpreting your words and taking offence.

but sometimes they ARE in the wrong!

Sometimes people do take offense where none was meant, either because they over-reacted, or misunderstood, or have some communication difficulties (for example autism can sometime make it harder to understand sarcasm or nuance) or there was a different cultural context/language barrier, or because they want to make a point, or whatever.

You can't say that the person making the comment is ALWAYS, "in any situation" automatically in the wrong no matter what, regardless of how innocuous the comment was.

You can't say you'd agree you were in the wrong if you said 'Good morning' to a colleague as you walked into work and they burst into tears and made a complaint about you because they'd just heard a family member had died so it wasn't a good morning for them and so you shouldn't have said that?

Or what about if you used a word that sounds offensive in other languages and a colleague of a different nationality took offence? e.g 'shabby' apparently sounds like the term for 'stupid cunt' in chinese, or 'cookie' 'small penis' in hungarian. If you said to your colleague 'Do you want a cookie?' and they made a sexual harassment complaint about you, would you really hold your hands up and say 'Of course that is completely my fault, I should have known how every single word could be interpreted in every other language in the world, I will never use the word cookie again, in fact I'll never speak in front of anyone whom I can't guarantee might not have the exact same understanding of language as me.' (which means I can never speak).

If offence isn't intended then the offence does originate from the person who has interpreted it as offensive. It might be an honest mistake but that doesn't mean that the speaker has to take responsibility for it.

MyOliveHelper · 03/05/2025 15:02

InWalksBarberalla · 03/05/2025 14:41

And ideally to educate yourself and be aware, because people shouldn’t have to point it out in the first place.

I'd never until today heard anything whatsoever about watermelons having racist connotations. And you can't expect anyone to research the list of foods their clients eat in a given day before noting them down - and then - what deliberately omitting any if they have any questionable past. It's ridiculous. And yes the OP has a right to be upset about being accused of being racist for doing her job in the expected way.

I think part of the issue is around the client not liking that food. I think that does give additional context, if only by adding confusion.

MyOliveHelper · 03/05/2025 15:06

latetothefisting · 03/05/2025 15:02

but sometimes they ARE in the wrong!

Sometimes people do take offense where none was meant, either because they over-reacted, or misunderstood, or have some communication difficulties (for example autism can sometime make it harder to understand sarcasm or nuance) or there was a different cultural context/language barrier, or because they want to make a point, or whatever.

You can't say that the person making the comment is ALWAYS, "in any situation" automatically in the wrong no matter what, regardless of how innocuous the comment was.

You can't say you'd agree you were in the wrong if you said 'Good morning' to a colleague as you walked into work and they burst into tears and made a complaint about you because they'd just heard a family member had died so it wasn't a good morning for them and so you shouldn't have said that?

Or what about if you used a word that sounds offensive in other languages and a colleague of a different nationality took offence? e.g 'shabby' apparently sounds like the term for 'stupid cunt' in chinese, or 'cookie' 'small penis' in hungarian. If you said to your colleague 'Do you want a cookie?' and they made a sexual harassment complaint about you, would you really hold your hands up and say 'Of course that is completely my fault, I should have known how every single word could be interpreted in every other language in the world, I will never use the word cookie again, in fact I'll never speak in front of anyone whom I can't guarantee might not have the exact same understanding of language as me.' (which means I can never speak).

If offence isn't intended then the offence does originate from the person who has interpreted it as offensive. It might be an honest mistake but that doesn't mean that the speaker has to take responsibility for it.

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On the ones where the word means something else in another language, I think that is on explaining to the offended person. However, if I had the experience with "good morning", I may well adjust my greeting to "morning". That's taking responsibility without having to grovel to anyone as you're right, I didn't do anything wrong, but I could do something better.

latetothefisting · 03/05/2025 15:08

JHound · 03/05/2025 13:41

Had they eaten watermelon?

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No, I'm sure OP made it up, because that would be a completely normal thing for a care worker to do for no possible reason whatsoever.

Why on earth would she have said it if they hadn't? What possible rationale would there have been for her making up a random fruit they didn't eat? Seriously, why even ask that?

latetothefisting · 03/05/2025 15:11

MyOliveHelper · 03/05/2025 15:06

On the ones where the word means something else in another language, I think that is on explaining to the offended person. However, if I had the experience with "good morning", I may well adjust my greeting to "morning". That's taking responsibility without having to grovel to anyone as you're right, I didn't do anything wrong, but I could do something better.

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ok, so you've now amended your wording to never say good morning again. What about 'good evening,' or 'have a nice weekend!' or 'Heard you've been on holiday, lucky you!' or 'You look well.' Or 'Merry Christmas,' or 'Happy new year.'

Exactly the same could happen, you could be accused of implying something that did not occur which could potentially hurt someone's feelings.

If you censor your speech, even the most banal commonalities, to the point where you remove any hint of inference at all you'd end up not being "safe" to say anything.

DirtyBird · 03/05/2025 15:28

I’m black and this wouldn’t offend me since you were just factually stating that I ate watermelon. Sometimes people are offended when there’s no reason to be.

InWalksBarberalla · 03/05/2025 15:36

MyOliveHelper · 03/05/2025 15:02

I think part of the issue is around the client not liking that food. I think that does give additional context, if only by adding confusion.

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Tastes change. And watermelons vary hugely. Maybe the client had previously had long storage flavourless watermelons and this was a fresh sweet delicious one so they thought you know what this is nice and ate it after hearing everyone else rave about it. Therefore requiring the OP to note it down or lie by omission.

InWalksBarberalla · 03/05/2025 15:40

The good news is that in the not too distant future when demographics mean that most care giving in the UK is done by AI robots this kind of appalling racist behaviour won't occur. We can program the AIs to be anti racist so they won't allow a black client to eat watermelon in the first place and thereby avoid the recording of said eating.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 03/05/2025 15:58

latetothefisting · 03/05/2025 15:11

ok, so you've now amended your wording to never say good morning again. What about 'good evening,' or 'have a nice weekend!' or 'Heard you've been on holiday, lucky you!' or 'You look well.' Or 'Merry Christmas,' or 'Happy new year.'

Exactly the same could happen, you could be accused of implying something that did not occur which could potentially hurt someone's feelings.

If you censor your speech, even the most banal commonalities, to the point where you remove any hint of inference at all you'd end up not being "safe" to say anything.

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Yep. This. As I said upthread, I’m more than happy to address something I’ve said that may have caused offence. But I absolutely will not be made to apologise for something I’ve said in all innocence that someone else has taken offence to. And that doesn’t just apply to racism. If I’ve said something to offend you then it’s on you to explain why you’ve taken offence so that I can either learn from it if it’s valid, or explain why it’s not.

I’m disabled and have come across ableist language all my life. I think I know the difference by now between something deliberately said to cause offence, and something said in innocence or ignorance that is not meant to hurt. And to be honest I take issue with those who will perceive something as a slur and not bring it up with the perpetrator at the time. I’d much rather educate than malign, and If I feel I’ve been slighted I will tackle it head on, not wait and complain with the intention of getting the person into trouble for the sake of it. It achieves nothing.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 03/05/2025 16:02

MyOliveHelper · 03/05/2025 15:02

I think part of the issue is around the client not liking that food. I think that does give additional context, if only by adding confusion.

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How is that relevant if the client was observed eating it ? Care workers are required to make these observations. What - you think the OP made it up just to be racist ?

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 03/05/2025 16:03

latetothefisting · 03/05/2025 15:02

but sometimes they ARE in the wrong!

Sometimes people do take offense where none was meant, either because they over-reacted, or misunderstood, or have some communication difficulties (for example autism can sometime make it harder to understand sarcasm or nuance) or there was a different cultural context/language barrier, or because they want to make a point, or whatever.

You can't say that the person making the comment is ALWAYS, "in any situation" automatically in the wrong no matter what, regardless of how innocuous the comment was.

You can't say you'd agree you were in the wrong if you said 'Good morning' to a colleague as you walked into work and they burst into tears and made a complaint about you because they'd just heard a family member had died so it wasn't a good morning for them and so you shouldn't have said that?

Or what about if you used a word that sounds offensive in other languages and a colleague of a different nationality took offence? e.g 'shabby' apparently sounds like the term for 'stupid cunt' in chinese, or 'cookie' 'small penis' in hungarian. If you said to your colleague 'Do you want a cookie?' and they made a sexual harassment complaint about you, would you really hold your hands up and say 'Of course that is completely my fault, I should have known how every single word could be interpreted in every other language in the world, I will never use the word cookie again, in fact I'll never speak in front of anyone whom I can't guarantee might not have the exact same understanding of language as me.' (which means I can never speak).

If offence isn't intended then the offence does originate from the person who has interpreted it as offensive. It might be an honest mistake but that doesn't mean that the speaker has to take responsibility for it.

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This.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 03/05/2025 16:03

JHound · 03/05/2025 14:47

The comments on this thread though….it’s like reading a discussion on a Men’s Reddit forum about sexism.

In what way ?

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 03/05/2025 16:06

JHound · 03/05/2025 13:42

You can be racist and have mixed race children.

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You can also have mixed race children and a black partner and not be racist.

Helloworlditsmeagain · 03/05/2025 16:07

Who gave her the watermelon? Was she asked if she wanted some or was it just put in front of her? To understand why her client felt offended you have to know what led up to it. Is the op approachable and caring or was she there to tick a box and move on.

Lovelysausagedogscrumpy · 03/05/2025 16:09

JHound · 03/05/2025 13:41

Had they eaten watermelon?

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Why would the OP say they had eaten watermelon if they hadn’t ? This is the problem I have with the whole thread. So many posters coming from the position that OP must be lying and there must be more to it for it to be escalated. Why didn’t the client tackle OP head on if they were so offended by something she said. Why wait and be polite during the encounter and then make a complaint to the employer ? In that situation I would at least want to verify that OP meant whatever she said in the context in which it was taken. It’s akin to a kangaroo court. OP has to accept that she was perceived as racist even though the thought had never entered her head.

Illprobqblychangemynameagain · 03/05/2025 16:10

missmollygreen · 02/05/2025 20:21

"im not racist, I have black friends"
Sounds like a meme to me. I would NOT say that you cant be racist as you have black family.

I personally feel like if the fanily are her children.... then yes she can say that. If she was racist she wouldn't of chosen to have black children surely?