Ex didn't pick eldest up from school, have i done something wrong here?

[BookArt55]

So today is the second time dad is picking the kids up from school and nursery and having them for two nights since a lives with order in my favour was put in place and dad has spends a time order.

School pickup is 3.15pm. I get a call at 3.45pm from school saying they've called dad, no answer, can I get my eldest. Off I go. Once I have the eldest I message dad. He messages back saying eldest should be in afterschool club despite never, ever having attended on a Friday. By this time I've automatically driven to nursery, i wait outside until dad agrees I can pick youngest up, so I do.

By this point we should go straight to the kid's favourite club, so I start driving there to be told by dad that I need to meet him at our handover location as they have a bbq to get to. I raise the kid's club and was told again to go straight to handover location. So I do, the kid's miss their club, I hand the kids over.

Kids cried when daddy didn't pick them up as I had this time (following previous advice from here) kept it very simple; daddy was picking them up and I would see them after their time with daddy. I thought it was a foolproof explanation...
They cried they weren't going to their club, again it is because I have to pack their bags this morning with the uniform so they knew already (dad won't supply his own uniform).

Dad is now saying that I should have known his work schedule has changed and booked afterschool club, and now wants me to book and pay for it. We communicate on a parenting app, he has never said this. I also don't need childcare on a Friday afterschool so I don't think I should organise or pay. He also hadn't informed the school or afterschool club. The first Friday pick up from school since the court was out in place, dad picked eldest up from the classroom, no problem, they got youngest, then took them to their club. So not sure why there is a problem now... well I would assume control, causing chaos, forgot, napping, doesn't like running around after the kids doing kid things... but then I'm being cynical.

Should I have handed the kids over? I think so because it is a court order even if he didn't pick eldest up.

He pays CMS, but that doesn't mean i should pay for his childcare on his days, right?

I took everyone's advice and didn't take the blame. I told the children a simple, child friendly explanation which did include a lot of 'i don't know the answer to that question.'

You need legal advice.

I don't think that would be wrong but I know family court and it absolutely could be spun as your fault. Yes you would have proof he failed to collect from school but you know Family Court.

I'd avoid not handing over for contact but don't book and pay for his childcare. Don't rescue when he fails to collect and tell him to buy his own fucking uniform. .

I

I am court ordered to supply the uniform to dad 🤣 I know, what a joke!

Thank you I think I'll contact my solicitor so I have a plan in my head.

Your ex-DH made a complete show of himself in court, so why on earth would the court make an order for you to buy all the uniforms and provide them to him?

No matter how useless, controlling or abusive the dad is, the courts always seem to be on their side. It's so unfair that dads who were abusive and controlling in the marriage are seemingly given carte blanche by the courts to continue abusing their ex-wifes via their children.

@thepariscrimefiles couldn't agree more. But it is okay, because dad has to supply underwear for his days/house... that is a financially fair comparison isn't it?
I'm planning on potty training the youngest soon so he'll kick off about having to buy underwear for them next!
Post separation abuse is mad but just doesn't seem to be recognised and no plan on how to deal with it. The kids end up in the middle and getting the brunt of it. Mad.

I'm not sure why my previous post has been hidden. I just included a link to an article by Dr Charlotte Proudman about men using family courts to continue abusing their ex-wives and children.

@thepariscrimefiles thank you, I'll take a look!

The article is in Glamour magazine. She also has a book out about this same subject called He Said She Said: Truth, Trauma and the Struggle for Justice in Family Court

You can still report the past missed payment along with this recent one. If he’s only been a day or two late then won’t do anything. But it’s still worth reporting, as it won’t be the last time.

Collect and pay only works if your ex has a legit job for a legit company. For example, If it’s a small two employee company and his boss is his mate, they will just start paying him in cash and your kids will get nothing.

My ex stopped paying completely for 6 months before CMS agreed to put him on collect and pay. So then he quit his job and went “ self employed “ doing the identical job for the same company . But apparently his income went from £140,000/ year to £9,000 / year .

There are so many ways that these shit dads manage to abuse their ex and and neglect their kids 🤬

Sounds like he went contracting, earning through a limited company. You'd be able to search and find his ltd company on Companies House and pass the details onto CMS. He'll be withdrawing large dividends from it - no doubt, which in the eyes of HMRC is income.

I have reported both late payments this week. I don't thinkt they'll do anything, he paid the moment he was told i had reported him. But i know how his actions follow a pattern so I will just keep reporting. I suspect they'll do nothing, he will feel like he 'won' and his actions will increase... vicious circle.

It is crazy what your ex did. I have found out my ex has recently set up a company... so I see this in my future!

Yes that’s right. However he wasn’t drawing dividends from the company, as you point out , HMRC see dividends as income . He was too smart for that - he was paying salary and dividends to his new partner and various family members instead and paying himself only £9000 / year.

You are right that CMS should investigate, but they wont do so until the company has traded for a year and has submitted their statutory accounts, which in my XH case was 21 months after they started trading.

Then it takes about 6 - 9 months to get through the CMS complaint process and until your complaint is at the top of their queue . Then they will start investigating, which can take about 12 months.

Then the paying parent can appeal the assessments to the first tier tribunal, which is another 18 months.Then you wait for their findings and ( if they find in your favour ), you have to get it enforced.

So as you can see, thats about 5 - 6 years before the receiving parent and her children get any money. If the paying parent then claims he has no income apart from that £9,000/ year and no assets (eg because he has moved them into someone else’s name) , he will be allowed to pay off the years of arrears at £7 / week.

It will take my ex 55 years to pay my children the money he owes them, they will be retired themselves. It’s ludicrous.

@L0UISA that's awful. Some men really don't deserve to ever become fathers. Poor children.

@L0UISA that is awful. Yet if you stopped paying for your kids so there were no clothes, electricity, food, you'd be done for neglect... it is mad that they can work the system and the system is so unbelievably set up to just let them get away with it. So sorry you are going through this!

Unfortunately the systems historically were created by men with the view in mind to support men. Whilst women are working towards getting equal rights and good progress has been made, these systems that are not "directly" related to equal rights continue to detrimental generally (not all) women. Yes some men are affected by this too and I'd imagine those men would agree the system is corrupt.

Thank you . But it’s nothing like as bad as what you are going through because my children are high school age, so can choose NOT to see him. Now they just visit him for a few hours, a couple of times a year and if he is rude or unpleasant to them, they walk out .

It’s been very hard for them and takes a lot of resolve, as he makes them feel guilty. But it puts the kids in control and not him, which of course he hates. Their last two visits ( Christmas and last summer) which were planned to be about 2-3 hours, ended after less than an hour, as he just can’t bring himself to be nice to them, even for such a short time. At Christmas, his girlfriend stood and shouted at them for 5 mins, telling the, how terribly they treated him and what bad kids they were 😡

I think that once he ceased to be able to use the children as a weapon against me, he lost all interest in them. They have occasional phone calls and he has nothing to say to them - he doesn’t know what they are studying , what their hobbies are, who their friends are as he shows no interest. He just talks about his work and expects them to care about that.

It’s been awful for them, but it’s less of a mind fuck than what your children are going through. And I know yours are very young, so it’s a long time before they are allowed to make any decisions about seeing their father.

Many men in your husbands positions move in with another single mum, as this reduces their liability for child support and it gives him someone to do the childcare when they are there. Often these new partners will want to reduce contact or stop him seeing his children altogether.

However, I don’t want to derail your thread and make it about me. I just wanted to prepare you for the obstructive bureaucracy that is the CMS. As @Bearhunt468 says, it’s just another system that is set up to be benefit men (who are nearly always the paying parent ) and penalise women ( as the receiving parent ) and their children.

@L0UISA I'm glad the kids see him for who he is, i hope mine are able to. He already doesn't know much about them and just talks about his work, they seem very similar our exs.
My ex already has a single mum as a girlfriend, 'blended family' has repeatedly been used. So he follows these patterns to the letter! So far it have nothing bad to say about her, unlike your one, how awful!? That's a great way to make them feel welcome and want to spend time with their dada

ELSA is brilliant - that’s a really good suggestion. Gives little ones time and space to talk about things.

@BookArt55

That's a great way to make them feel welcome and want to spend time with their dada

I think that’s the point of her behaviour, she doesn’t want him to see his kids at all. And he is happy to let her act like this , so that he can blame the kids for not wanting to see him. Or more likely it’s my fault, that I have turned them against him .

He gets a lot more validation and attention from playing the martyr than he ever did from being a dad. The kids were only useful for 3 things - making him look like father of the year ( he was never done telling everyone what a great dad he was ) , controlling me and boosting his ego from their admiration.

Once that stopped he had no further use for them. He is the perfect example of Main Character.

Sounds like your ex is his twin brother ☹️

@L0UISA they really are twins! That makes so much sense they way you've described it and is exactly my ex's motives. Bonus is you kids are got a great mum!!!

Thank you! Like you, I’m just trying to do my best for my kids, picking our way through the minefield that is the courts, police, CMS and education / disability services ( as two of my kids have special needs).

Everything seems to be set up to prioritise men and their rights over those of women and children. You think you are getting free from abusive / controlling men when you divorce / split up from them but you can never be free until all your kids are adults . Or if they find a new victim to control and lose interest in you.

You're really strong, you can see it through the knowledge you've gained and the walk you talk. You're doing great and thank you for sharing this with me! And I agree, I've made a few jokes about a countdown until my youngest is 18... humour gets me through!

Thanks . The courts are supposed to take account of the children’s views from the age of about 11 or 12. But if they think thats it’s in the children’s best interest to see the father, they will ignore their views.

Of course no one can explain how a mother can force a 14 year old to go to their fathers if they dont want to. You can’t exactly pick them up and strap them in the car seat .

@L0UISA just thought I'd let you know my surprising news. I reported the late payment last month and the no payment this month. Then he paid after he was notified that i reported it. So I then sent CMS proof he had paid. I didn't expect it to be taken further, just logging it and showing him that I will go to CMS if needed.
Today I've been told by CMS it will be taken by Collect and Pay. He is raging abd I'vehad lots of not so lovely messages. I am so surprised.

Oh dear, how sad for him!