Reform winning big

[Keirawr]

Reform had a good night, winning county councils, probably will win a mayoral seat and won the parliamentary by election also.

You don’t have to be a Reform voter to acknowledge that they are taking votes off Labour. Or that they are being electorally effective.

No doubt the ‘basket of deplorables’ crowd will be along in a min with their usual quips calling reform voters names, having learned absolutely 0 from Brexit. Insult the voters at your peril.

These same people also totally miss the point that winning is winning. Feeling all moral and superior about ‘oh well, what will they actually do’ changes nothing.

Perhaps those who label everyone that wants immigration limiting as ‘racist’ Will think again. But likely not.

I had a friend who sent me a social media message last night saying reform was outside the polling station and that it made her sick. FWIW I think Reform was the ONLY candidate who turned up to our polling station, which says something, actions speaking louder than words and all that.

I didn't respond because I don't want an argument but I think it's awful that so many people who think they're liberal are so closed minded. I'd have like to chat to the candidate and I would have done given the chance and not pull a face, shun him and dismiss him as a Nazi. I didn't vote Reform and he couldn't have changed my mind, I don't think, but I would have been interested in what he had to say.

Our reform candidate in the last election was a black legal immigrant who'd lived in this country most of his life. I wish I'd had the opportunity to talk to him and find out what it was about the party that appealed, but he can hardly be called most of the standard reform insults. Not a racist, not anti- all forms of immigration obviously.

People who think they're progressive have become the closed minded bigots, ironically, with a complete lack of open mindedness about why people might vote Reform and a knee jerk belief that they're right and everyone with a different view is deplorable and thick. I'm really getting sick of it. There's a lot of classism too.

People always assume I'm middle class but both my mother and my husbands father are very much working class and had tough lives at times. We still know quite a lot of lovely people who are working class (in general much, much more open minded and often also more intelligent with more life experience at the sharp end than the professional people we mix with). So the assumption I'm just going to share the idea that the working classes are thick and should do as self appointed betters say always rubs me up the wrong way. It's also very undemocratic and seemingly absolutely rife among people in positions of power and I think that's worrying.

And Starmer hasn't lied to the British public?

The saddest thing in all this, for me, is that the populists like Trump or Reform promise is way over what mainstream parties are promising, but they will absolutely will not be able to deliver any of this. Most of the stuff they promise is either very complicated/ undeliverable - or something they will have no capacity/ experience or knowledge to improve. But of course they have an advantage over mainstream parties who generally avoid promising something insanely undeliverable - as they have zero intention of doing anything positive or useful. All they are able to do is to fuck things up, get rich, and make lives of ordinary people harder and more unpleasant. In this instant, Brexit is a great example - it all sounded so amazing, extra money for the NHS, no immigrants - but in the end its just a massive act of self harm with no benefits to the general population whatsoever. Trump's election is another great example...

A lot of people love the simplicity of that Farage is offering - "we will fix it", "we will make everything great" - and they dont care he shows zero evidence of being able to do anything, even being able to successfully manage his constituency. Does that make his supporters stupid? They definitely sound, at best, very naïve - or maybe they are so driven by a specific ideology that they prepared to let everything else to be overlooked/ destroyed.

Yes because that's worked out well with giving lefties Starmer, hasn't it?

In a by-election where the Labour incumbent was ditched for beating someone up.

I'm not defending Labour, or diminishing the fact that Reform ARE taking votes from them, like I said. But they're taking more as a result of the collapse of the Tory party.

I think this was inevitable, politicians from both Labour and the Conservatives have basically been flapping their hands ineffectually for decades not dealing with crime and immigration, people get fed up. I really think suspicions around two tier justice, the lack of enquiry into grooming gangs, no-one being able to get a handle on migration then taking money off pensioners is a really toxic mix. It’s not unsurprising if somewhat disappointing.

They are taking votes off Labour, quite a few, I think you are seeing blue labour giving the labour party a firm kick. The conservatives are basically nowhere.

@localnotail that reminds me, Farage very quickly dropped the Reform Will Fix It slogan, didn't he? He really didn't think that one through.

On what planet is Starmer a leftie? They despise him.

Bit like U turn Starmer on the concept of a biological woman.

Great. I hope Reform win. Maybe one day we’ll stop importing anyone who wants to come here, no matter what their negative motives. Blair opened the floodgates and every cowardly PM since has continued with this insanity.

he’s tended to do the prosecution rather than be prosecuted so far..,

Well he was their vehicle to power wasn't he?

This is true, however it does at least allow a channel for legitimate asylum seekers. At present, they feel that they have no other option than to present themselves here, and will try any means to accomplish that.

If there was a process for application before arriving, the government would have a better footing for rejecting any asylum seeker who did not use the process immediately, which would be a complete reversal of the current position.

While there are clearly many applicants who use asylum inappropriately, it is worth keeping in mind that many applicants are genuinely displaced people who would welcome the chance to apply in a more legitimate way.

👏 👏 👏 Bravo

I think it's a strong message to the traditional parties to get their act together. It's a protest vote really at this point, but it could easily become something else if the other parties remain totally unaccountable.

I really like Kemi B and her pragmatism. And she has a track record of actually doing things not just pontificating. Whether she'll truly get the chance to implement her plans before the media try to stab her in the back is another question.

Whose vehicle? Do you think centrism and leftism are interchangeable? Have a 5 minute browse of corbynite Twitter and see how much they like Labour these days…

I don’t think they all do, look at mn lots of support for him on here.

How does one gain experience? By doing the job.

Indeed, Kemi is fending off the wolves from all directions. I'm behind her 💯

I’m just hoping Reform will turn out like Oswald Mosley and his Fascists. But the British electorate had more sense then.

ok, I see the crux here. Your Overton window is so warped you think centrism and leftism are synonymous.

Actual lefties, y’know, the kind who go on trans rights marches, despise mumsnet.

Ah facism: the quintessential rebuttal of one's right to vote..when it doesn't go your way.

The media don't need to stab her in the back, her own party will do that soon enough. She won't be leader by the time the next GE rolls around. I think Jenrick will replace her.

That’s your definition of a ‘leftie’ and it’s not a good one.

Totally agree OP. Just like with Brexit, people will be wondering 'how the hell did this happen?' It happened because... People. Don't. Listen!
That and the fact that this current Labour govt is more Tory than the Tories! 😂
These Reform gains do not surprise me in the slightest.