Living beyond our means.. will it ever end!

[Wharawho]

Aibu, to be completely fed up with living month to month and barely being able to pay for everything?

For context, we're a family of five... me, DH and 3DS.(7, 6 & 3)
Household income of £70k
3 bed semi- mortgaged (nearly £1k a month- this double last feb when the interest rate went up 😞)
2 cars (15yo car paid off and family car on pcp at £450p/m)
For context we need the family car to fit all 3 kids carseats in and I also require a big car for my business. I hate having finance, but we can't work without two cars or even go out as a family if we had one small car! And we definitely don't have the money to buy another outright.

Despite what I think is a reasonable household income, 1 week after being paid, almost every penny is claimed by our household bills and expenses and we spend the rest of the month penny pinching.
We're one big unexpected bill away from not being able to buy the shopping and I'm fed up of it to be honest!
We don't have big expensive holidays or eat out/ have lots of takeaways.
If anything I'd say we live quite modestly... we've lived in the same house for 6 years and still haven't be able to finish renovating it, as we don't have the money!
I haven't had my hair cut for 2 years, as I can't commit that much money to myself... I'm also in desperate need of a new pair of glasses, but I can't afford to buy a new pair ( I have to wear them all the time!)
Days out tend to be outdoor places, with a homemade picnic and maybe an ice cream for the kids!

We buy our clothes from places like Tesco and primark, rarely do me and DH get anything only when we really need something, just the kids and we pass down clothes through our boys as they grow to save on money.
The kids attend swimming lessons once a week, this is their only "luxury" or "extra thing" they do I'm all honesty, and something we prioritise, as we think it's important that they can swim! Even this I price shopped for the cheapest lessons to make sure we pay as little as possible!
We do have the typical Netflix, Disney etc and go for a Costa 2 times each month, but again nothing extravagant... just living and trying enjoy small pleasures and have something to look forward to!

I paid myself today and after all of our bills and food money we literally have £160 to last the month,.. which includes entertaining the kids, buying school clothes/shoes, treats, covering unexpected expenses or car/house repairs!
We don't have enough to save for a rainy day fund and the minute something comes up, any savings we do have are gone and we're back to square 1!
Last month the 15yo car needed new brakes/ discs and a few other bits to pass its mot, setting us back £500.... we paid for it on our monzo flex (we only use this in emergencies when we really can't afford and pay it back ASAP!) but now this has left us short last month and this month paying it back! (As I say... one bill away from despair)

I work for myself, from home and my business requires lots if space (I've converted our garage)... however my business is limited by my space and to grow and make more money I need a bigger work space/ bigger home.... which we can't afford!

How do people afford to go on holidays, have big flash cars and big 4 bed detached houses?!?!
18 year old me would have been thrilled to bring in £70k... but here we are struggling to make it through to the end of each month!

I guess this is just a rant really, as I'm feeling so deflated looking at our bank balance before the month has even started! 😞
Please tell me I'm not the only one experiencing this!

Interest rates going up probably was the catalyst plus cost of living increases. Your car is relatively expensive but if you don’t have huge credit card debt you are doing well. Go on to debt free wannabe on MSE and you will see people using credit cards to survive. It is a slippery slope. £70k is not a bad income but if you live in the south east and have two cars and three children it is not enough. Unless you can increase your income I would suggest you do look at every penny you spend. Do you need Netflix and Disney plus or can you make do with just one of them? Costa is expensive compared to small independent cafes or just take your own food or drink to a park or beach or whatever. Even a pub with a garden might be cheaper. Don’t the school do swimming lessons? Can you teach them yourselves?

It is rubbish but it will get better as your business grows hopefully and maybe when the car is past the halfway mark look at trading it in for something cheaper. Don’t use credit cards as building repayments into an already tight budget could be the tipping point. Try and save for emergencies even if just £10 or £20 a week or month. Try and get value of money on everything. MSE is great for that. Maybe interest rates will fall but the government have done a right number in keeping them artificially low for years leading to house price inflation and now interest rates have had to rise to curb inflation in other areas. YANBU to be cross about it though.

"Ensure you bring this in" - you make it sound easy!! £120k a year is out of reach for most people....

@Wharawho you must be over paying on stuff somewhere!? My household income is 44k a year, mortgage is £980, car payment £200, we save £400 a month (more because I also save £100 a month for Christmas and £25 a month goes into my child’s saver account) and after shopping / petrol budget still have around £400 a month to spend on ‘extras’. We also still have expensive months where we dip into the savings (eg my car also needs new discs and pads front and back) how much are your utilities and how much do you budget for your food shopping? Our income is around £3760 a month, bills (including savings) is £2500, shopping budget £450-550, fuel £130-150. Granted we only have one car but your income is almost double ours? And if we want a takeaway/day out/ holiday (ok a haven most of the time) we do it! I see these posts a lot and always wonder what the outgoings are, we are in a much worse financial position than we were before we had children but we are pretty comfortable and not robbing Peter to pay Paul every month. Genuinely interested not wanting to cause a riot!! We have sky Netflix and Disney subscriptions and a decent internet and don’t live by candlelight

You need a job OP, even part time. It's not a good time to be self-employed unless in a trade. People are counting the pennies at the minute.

Bonkers, isn’t it! I often feel like I’m on a different planet reading posts on here sometimes.

Also coupled with this the increase in your mortgage payment.

Compared to a couple of years ago it sounds like your income has dramatically decreased, and your outgoings have significantly increased (mortgage, car payment & HMRC debt)

You feel like you have less money because you do!

I think there's some confusion in this thread about OP's actual household income as they refer to "bringing home £70k" but then later confirm it's actually £4.8k/mth net.

Talking about "Bringing home" naturally makes people assume that's how much money is coming into the household.

The kids attend swimming lessons once a week, this is their only "luxury" or "extra thing" they do I'm all honesty, and something we prioritise, as we think it's important that they can swim!

While I don't disagree I do remember the days of paying for three lots of swimming lessons before col crisis and it wiped us out. I would make sure they aren't too young to benefit - a lot who started young just spent longer and more money learning - our started late due to our own situation but flew threw in end.

When COL did hit us - we felt like you DH managed to get a higher paid job where the commute was slightly cheaper in - most of that benefit gone now.

One thing we have done is pretty much always paid the same monthly amount since we took morgtage out - bar last time when we dropped £50 - so most of year we overpay - it meant this time when the mortage rate is going up the amount we overpay is much less but we haven't felt the leap as much, Probably not much use to you OP - but something I'm glad we did.

We manged on slightly less and three kids on lower income mostly by having they earlier than you due to be older but also not running a car at all - so I would look at managing with one even if it's hard.

It has rapdily changed how far money goes in last few years - but for budgets it's still always increase income or reduce outgoings.

So is it £70 between the 2 of you? So £35k a year each, before or after tax?
Whats your join take home pay each month?
The car payment is ridiculous … £450 a month and you won’t even own the car at the end of it. I’d ditch the car and use a loan to by an older one, the monthly payments should be less and you’ll own the vehicle by the end of it.
Also look to reduce the amount of streaming services you are paying for … maybe limit to just one and there isn’t usually a contract so you could change every few months once you have watched everything.
What’s you total cable TV bill, can this be reduced?
Also Gas / Electric, see if you can find a better deal elsewhere.
Cancel any memberships you don’t use if you have any, gym etc.
Id make a spreadsheet of every single outgoing compared to what you bring in and see if there is a plus or minus at the end of the month!

The car is a big chunk of the issue, you are really going to have to reflect on that. We earn a lot more than you and I can't imagine spending that much a month on a car.

You also don't need to do things like spend £50 on a present for someone if you don't have the money, I would never want anyone to buy a gift for me in that situation, let alone my own child

But finally your job /business is the biggest issue if it isn't making you enough money. It's all very well as a single person going without everything to do a job you love, but once you have dependent children you have to get a bit more grown up about it. You are asking them to make a lot of sacrifices (eg no hobbies etc) and I am not sure that's fair

In the nicest possible way… it’s having three kids! I have one and he’s bloody expensive!

Then your situation isn’t in any way comparable to the OP’s. You’ve no housing costs (lucky you) and no dependents! Read the room.

What’s you total cable TV bill, can this be reduced?

We got ours down from £70-ish to £29 for cable TV and internet. It wasn't easy - we didn't have any real choice in company and were told we already had the best deal. But my DH searched online for tips and got hold of a 'secret' phone number for a dept that really did offer the best deals. I'm so chuffed with that extra £40 a month!

I’m sorry op, this is a no brainer. You need to find a salaried job. Your business is a hobby that is basically costing you money (it requires space, it requires you having 2 cars, it has resulted in your income going down and leaving you with very little money every month..). It’s not sustainable because you need more space to give it a chance to grow, but you can’t afford more space. It’s great that you’re enjoying it, but work needs to bring in cash. You need to find ways of increasing your income and decreasing your expenditure - getting rid of 1 car will save you loads, you can do this by finding a job that doesn’t require 2 cars. Stopping your business will free up space and give you the possibility of moving to a cheaper house.
Also, stop trips to Costa, cancel Netflix etc. You’ll be surprised by how much you can save there.

Also the people saying, how dare you have disney and netflix! thats only £10-15 quid a month. So not helpful!

Those few pounds can soon add up though if you're not careful.

But finally your job /business is the biggest issue if it isn't making you enough money. It's all very well as a single person going without everything to do a job you love, but once you have dependent children you have to get a bit more grown up about it. You are asking them to make a lot of sacrifices (eg no hobbies etc) and I am not sure that's fair

This is spot on. What effect is your decision to run a seasonal, low-profit business out of the garage going to have on your children's future? You have a great time, spending days at home doing very little off season. Do you expect them to go without hobbies, holidays, days out, so you get to do what makes you happy? You've said several times 'it may sound selfish.' It is. Fine if you were just two adults or on your own, not fine with children.

I think that these days 70k is not all that much for a family of 5 given the shocking cost of everything. I am retired, have been for a couple of years and initially I was ok, bills covered and money over for unexpected expenses and occasional treats. Mortgage paid of a while ago. I am starting to struggle now with the cost of everything, council tax where I live is one of the highest in the country, my water bill has jumped up, likewise internet, insurance and god only knows what else. I have always been good at menu planning and cooking but even so I cannot believe how much it costs to buy food. It must be so tough for so many families. When I stop to think about how constrained my life is by the cost of everything I get quite depressed and I can't see things getting any better.

This it’s simple you chose to have three kids and an easier job. Surely the joy of the kids and the stress free job isn’t something money can buy?

Average FT salary in the UK is £37k, your combined salaries are less than that but your fixed outgoings (mortgage, car) are above average.

The car was definitely an error, there’s a middle ground between £450 a month(!) and an old banger.

Also, too late now but 3 kids is an expensive lifestyle choice, not just due to cars etc but longer time needing childcare.

DH ran a small business when the kids were young, barely earning more than minimum wage (if that!) but with the flexibility we needed. I worked FT as the higher earner. As soon as we didn’t need the flexibility he went back to his (very stressful) job. At some point you’ll need to decide how much you want nice things, holidays etc, and whether getting a salaried role is worth it. If not, you’ll likely continue to struggle financially with your current budget.

If you can't cut any more spending (and a careful review of what gets spent where is always useful)...
And you can't up your work income .. then something needs to be squeezed a bit more until the pips pop out!

You've used the phrase "We don't have big expensive holidays or eat out/ have lots of takeaways."

So, do you have a holiday? Could you skip it and have cheaper activities for a week as a 'break'? and do you have any takeaways.
I love takeaway but it kills me that it costs as much as my weekly spend at the supermarket (ok, about 2/3 of it) on one meal.
I compromise by getting some nice lazy dinners from the supermarket.

I’ve just joined a thread called low spend May - hoping this will help me cut down on unnecessary spending.

Also started doing AttaPoll surveys again through the app - could easily achieve a fiver a day just on commute if effort is put in. Look it up - reputable. Not for everyone but here’s my referral if anyone is interested.

I'm inviting you to join AttaPoll. Get paid to take surveys. Download the app here: attapoll.app/join/zesfw

@IAmStrongerThanIKnew

I love that website and the debt free wannabe forum was invaluable to me when I was in debt.

We pay £30 a month per child at our local sports centre.

So £90 a month?

Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves is largely bollocks though.

Earn a shedload of pounds and then don't worry about the pennies is a better attitude to have.

The way to bump up quality of life is to find ways to earn more. Even if you manage to save £20 a week on bits and bobs that is still only about £1K a year which won't even pay for a decent holiday for a family of 3.

In this situation I would be looking for at least £10K pa to improve quality of life, and the only realistic way you are going to get that is through increased earnings.

The problem is that you've already chosen three luxuries. The brand new car and the not working a full time PAYE job, but most importantly THREE children.

Three children is a massive luxury so you won't be able to have everything else on a household income of £70k because of that.

You obviously can't change the number of kids but you could change the car and work situations. Your costs relating to your minimum wage business seem huge. The massive car, the petrol, the inability to do another job, all because of a minimum wage role? It doesn't add up. If you changed those two, you'd have some breathing space.