To think video may have killed the radio star but the internet killed the pub!

[SullivanCh]

What made me write this is my grandparents kept a town centre pub in the 40s and 50s. My dad grew up in the pub. My Dad said that his parents - who died before I was born - used to provide Xmas dinner every year for homeless men and cater for those at the margins of society. This has got me thinking lately.

It seems to me pubs at the time - the 40s/50s - then fulfilled one of functions that the internet now fills - helping marginalized people feel included and integrated.

i started drinking in pubs in 1990 - it’s been widely written about that pub attendance and culture have diminished since this time - I’ve seen it myself with pubs I grew up with in my local area closing etc etc .

People often suggest that pub culture declined a lot following the smoking ban - this may be right but personally I think the internet was more responsible for killing pub culture. Not just to help lonely or marginalised people like I mentioned above, but the internet helps people in general interact and connect from the comfort of their own homes - where drinks and snacks are cheaper, everything’s less hassle etc etc …,

So maybe you all disagree with me but I feel the internet has a lot to do with the demise of the pub - more than the smoking ban I think. Any thoughts?

Pubs had already begun to decline before both the smoking ban and the internet IMO. A lot of the pubs where I was living in the 1990s closed or became 'family friendly'/started doing food. It was diversify or die as their older clientele began to disappear and weren't replaced with new ones.

The rise of supermarkets selling cheap booze had more impact, I think.

Young people used to do the pubs before the clubs. My sister and I would be out in the pubs from 8pm until the clubs got going at about 11pm. My brother who is 15 years younger than me would get tanked up at home, then go to the club. Because by the time he reached the age of clubbing, it was much cheaper for him to do that than spend a few hours at the pub first.

The old business of the men going to the pub whilst the wife cooked Sunday dinner, or popping in for a swift one after work was already in decline. My generation (x) wasn't having any of that, we wanted to be down the pub, too. And we were until we had kids, mortgages, etc and just couldn't justify spending money on drinks out when it was cheaper to drink at home. Hence the 'family friendly, gastro pub' era started, to get us back in even if it wasn't to drink the place dry anymore.

So the next generation, who wasn't brought up so much with the traditional idea of 'going down the pub with your mates' hasn't the same understanding of 'pub culture'.

I think it's sad in a way, but times change. It's not any one thing, the internet probably been a bit of a last nail in the coffin, but that idea of the pub as a community hub to have a social drink has been lost for a while now. Not everywhere, but in a lot of places.

When I was growing up, my Dad went to the pub 8 times a week! That was in the 80s. My parents are divorced, by the way 😆
It's not really accepted these days for guys to spend every evening in the pub while wives stay at home. So pubs had to diversify and offer decent food to attract whole families, plus there's not much margin on just beer so if you don't have enough footfall, you've got to do good food and make your money on that. Round here, the ones doing well have gone down the gastro route, while the others have mainly closed unless they're in a busy town centre and get the volume of customers needed.

I didn't answer the op but basically I think I mean that the overall way we live killed the pub, not just the internet!

Cost is a large part, but also a lot of men are more involved in family life and their relationships now so that reduces the pub too. Men are more likely to have a bbq with their friends and friends partners than go to the pub with just their male friends and leave the wife at home with the DC.

Prices killed the pubs. Prices have risen faster than wages have. An average weekly wage bought the equivalent of 270 pints in 1975. Today the average weekly wage buys just under a hundred pints. Clearly nobody should be spending their whole pay packet on drinking, but you get the point.

Price is another factor. The cheap pubs are just not that cheap. I don't want to pay a ton of money to sit in a really grimey pub, that is invariably not even heated!, and serves frozen food. It would be fun if it were cheap but it's not. Might as well pay a bit more money for a nice gastro pub every once in a while.

Not acceptable to just spend your evening after work at the pub anymore either.

People don't get "wasted" as often as we used to when we were younger.

I'd say the biggest factor is price. A night out down at the pub used to be most people's idea of a cheap night out. And meeting up in the pub after work - you didn't really think about the cost. But now - £6 a pint in many places, heaven help you if you are with a group of friends and it's your round.

It must be hard for younger people.

We still go, but far less often.

But the pub is the one thing you cannot replicate at home. A diverse group of people. Conversation. Cask ale. Live music on occasion (one place I know has a band every week), quizzes, specialist evenings, (in some cases nice) food. You do not get that combination at home, and though I know pubs which will sell e.g. jars of bags of cask ale, it's not quite the same as the ambience of the pub. I had discussions about bike rides in Ireland, science fiction and fantasy, local wildlife, motorbikes (DS has a Harley), dogs - all on Sunday afternoon, along with cask ale and some acceptable wine (no TV or music in said pub).

My first job, we used to go to the pub for Friday night drinks, colleagues' birthday lunches etc

Now, more people work from home, and we have more pressured fee targets = less likely to go out for lunch. It's just a quick sandwich at your desk

True. I was thinking more as: I can invite friends over, put some music on and pour usnsome
wine vs I couldn’t cook some of the food I eat at restaurants. But actually your answer shows that the ‘pub experience’ doesn’t mean the same
thing to everyone / different people will go to
the pub for different things.

I tend to side with the people talking about living in nicer, warmer homes with more in-house entertainment. I turned 18 in 1994. My first pub trips were when I was living with my parents and wanted space to let off steam with my mates. Then I went to uni, lived in crappy student accommodation and preferred to socialise in pubs and bars because it was nicer than home. Plus, as a student we were well placed to hoover up pound-a-pint nights.

Next came the bedsit / house share years. Again, home wasn't hugely attractive and if I wanted to watch the football, meet friends or try to make new ones, the pub was the place to do it. By 2004, though, I'd bought a place of my own. It wasn't a palace, but it was OK. I could start inviting people over for a meal (or TV and takeaway, depending). If I got lucky, it wasn't embarrassing to go back to mine (indeed, mine was good enough to increase my luck a bit). I still liked pubs, still went out fairly frequently and never had any paid TV sports so I'd go and watch the match. But it was starting to decline. I relocated to work overseas for a time (2006-2015) and went through a similar journey (needed to meet people and build a circle, initially lived in an unattractive flat, so went out; then got established, found a nicer place to live and spent more time at home).

Then came marriage, kids, a realisation that consuming my bodyweight in the most affordable beer available wasn't a great plan. I still go to the pub, but instead of an all-dayer, I'll treat myself to a quiet pint or two after a busy day. Or I'll pop out for a pub lunch while WFH, or go to hear a band that I'm interested in. I tend to favour brewpubs and micros these days rather than swilling halls. I don't need to escape a miserable home. I don't need to strike up chance conversations with randoms (although I do on occasion). I can meet a friend for a pint, but when we do we want to talk, not scream at each other over the music. And we can visit each other's homes, go for a meal / show / gig / whatever. Pubs have changed, but so have I and most of my circle.

@Grammarnut this describes a nice gastropub you would go to ocassionally.

Your average massive spoons with average beers, frozen food and zero entertainment really doesn't fit the bill.

Ds2 is ‘ Gen Z’ and him and his friends don’t go to pubs as it’s too expensive and Spoons is a bit boring.
They don’t tend to go ‘ clubbing ‘ either. I think it’s sad , but a lot is down to costs really.

Well, great, that's my type of pub, but it is also the type of pub that is increasingly harder to find.

Sadly.

The internet suggests the average cost of a pint of Carlsberg in a pub appears to be about £4.50.

In a supermarket you can get 18x 440 ml cans for £10. That's 13.94 pints or 0.72p per pint.

Approximately 6x more expensive in the pub on average. In the South the figures are probably even worse.

My DS Gen Z doesn't go to pubs really. He does like going out for food, to clubs and gigs though.

My ‘ Gen Z’ does go out for the odd meal or a theme park ! They tend to prefer that to a pub
I lived ‘ down the pub’ in my 20s after work / weekends.
It was a social thing too. Meet up , catch up
They probably don’t need to do that as much these days with the internet : phones.

@andyindurham I can meet a friend for a pint, but when we do we want to talk, not scream at each other over the music.

This is a good point and I think is part of the issue. One of the reasons I got tired of pubs was exactly that, all the pubs nearby would ramp up the music at a certain time and take away chairs, all designed of course to make people drink more, talk less and increase profit margins. In doing that they lost the original pub concept of somewhere to meet for a chat, it is after all literally called a public house. I used to love pubs and I think the pub that I enjoyed (much as @Grammarnut described) dug it's own grave in the past 20 years.

We're fortunate to have a few that are a bit like that nearby. At least one that I used to dismiss as an old man's pub back in the day (ah, the passage of time!). But we also have plenty of swilling halls, especially on a Friday or Saturday. And I notice that I'm far more selective on my travels these days. It used to be unheard of that I'd visit a town and not get in a few pubs; now I'll look up somewhere suitable before I arrive, and if I don't see anything I'll give it all a miss.

Depends where you live. All my friends were spread out when I lived in London. I almost never hosted or went to house parties. Always socialised in pubs, bars, cafes, restaurants etc. in Central London, albeit nowhere near as often as I I would have liked (harder to get people out post Covid!)

Nope the price of drinks killed the pubs.

I can't believe 37% think you're being unreasonable. You're bang on.

Maybe this too, a little.

My recently late DH liked our two local Wetherspoons. No music. Cask ale at a reasonable price. I suppose it's where you go to a Wetherspoon, perhaps? The pub I described is not a gastro pub but a real ale pub (tho not a micro brewery). One can always tell. Real ale pubs always have uncomfortable seats for some reason.

And you went out of your way to post something a bit mean just to try and make a stranger feel bad about themselves.