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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think video may have killed the radio star but the internet killed the pub!

130 replies

SullivanCh · 29/04/2025 19:50

What made me write this is my grandparents kept a town centre pub in the 40s and 50s. My dad grew up in the pub. My Dad said that his parents - who died before I was born - used to provide Xmas dinner every year for homeless men and cater for those at the margins of society. This has got me thinking lately.

It seems to me pubs at the time - the 40s/50s - then fulfilled one of functions that the internet now fills - helping marginalized people feel included and integrated.

i started drinking in pubs in 1990 - it’s been widely written about that pub attendance and culture have diminished since this time - I’ve seen it myself with pubs I grew up with in my local area closing etc etc .

People often suggest that pub culture declined a lot following the smoking ban - this may be right but personally I think the internet was more responsible for killing pub culture. Not just to help lonely or marginalised people like I mentioned above, but the internet helps people in general interact and connect from the comfort of their own homes - where drinks and snacks are cheaper, everything’s less hassle etc etc …,

So maybe you all disagree with me but I feel the internet has a lot to do with the demise of the pub - more than the smoking ban I think. Any thoughts?

OP posts:
Weedresistantmembrane · 29/04/2025 21:10

SaladSandwichesForTea · 29/04/2025 20:12

More women working and expecting more from men is what killed it. More palatable to blame a gov initiative than women though.

We earn more equally now so we have more of a say, and most women don't want to

  1. be in the pub every week,
  2. Expect to put dinner on the table and wait nicely for the blokes to come home after the pub that they stop in every night after work.

Yep. I was going to say this.
And also needing proper ID to get served.

When I worked in a pub in the 90s, most of the clientele mon-thurs were men.
Afternoons: men and dogs/ newspapers
Evening: men to watch football/ watch racing. Young men in bar. Old men in lounge.
Weekend: Teenagers, couples, full hit. But generally, male dominated.

We used to get wives often phoning to see where errant husbands were. I knew I'd never marry a man who's bit on the side was a pub. To be fair though, I don't know many women whose partners fit that stereotype now. Or who'd put up with it.

SullivanCh · 29/04/2025 21:10

Goodadvice1980 · 29/04/2025 21:05

The Wat Tyler, old Ferrier Estate in Kidbrooke 😂 long gone in the redevelopment of Kidbrooke Village (😂)

Blimey think my mum went to school in Kidbrooke !!

OP posts:
Turmerictolly · 29/04/2025 21:14

Trendy, local and gastropubs seem to do a roaring trade where I know in London and the little shop microbreweries have sprung up everywhere. However I totally agree that you can get a good bottle of wine for the price of a glass these days. It’s not a cheap night out any longer.

Weedresistantmembrane · 29/04/2025 21:14

Goodadvice1980 · 29/04/2025 21:05

The Wat Tyler, old Ferrier Estate in Kidbrooke 😂 long gone in the redevelopment of Kidbrooke Village (😂)

Still alive and kicking near me! Usually bump into someone I know of I go in there.

I also wonder whether, a bit like the birth rate dip, those of us between 50 and 40 had our kids later and, as one of the last generations growing up going to the pub, we all stopped going regularly because we had to pay for babysitters for a period. And you don't want to pay babysitters unless it's a big night out- so not your local.

SullivanCh · 29/04/2025 21:21

Turmerictolly · 29/04/2025 21:14

Trendy, local and gastropubs seem to do a roaring trade where I know in London and the little shop microbreweries have sprung up everywhere. However I totally agree that you can get a good bottle of wine for the price of a glass these days. It’s not a cheap night out any longer.

Yes Microbreweries - good call !!

OP posts:
crackofdoom · 29/04/2025 21:22

I love a pub, and I think that the ones that have survived are better than your classic boozer in days of yore- because they have to be. Coffee, quizzes, games nights, venues for social meet ups, food, mini festivals- the best neighbourhood pubs are working their arses off to get people through the doors. And way more inclusive of all different kinds of people , not just old white men!

Redpeach · 29/04/2025 21:22

I'm not sad the old style men only boozers have died out, but our local pubs, thankfully, are still doing well

Fargo79 · 29/04/2025 21:23

Not in London so it may be different here. But as far as anecdata from my own family, friends and coworkers goes, it appears to be a mix of reasons. Mostly money. People just don't have the disposable income they used to and the cost of a couple of pints is less affordable than it used to be. For some people (the younger crowd in their twenties) it doesn't align with their choices around health and aesthetics. It's not aspirational. They socialise by working out together, walking at local beauty spots etc. For others, childcare is a massive issue and they don't enjoy the same level of support from grandparents with childcare as their parents enjoyed themselves, so opportunities for child-free time are rare and not wasted on the pub when they do arise.

User415373 · 29/04/2025 21:24

I grew up in a pub. The smoking ban had hardly any effect on us but the price increase did.
The big pubs in the town near me are packed these days - people going to watch football or groups of friends going for bottomless brunch. The more traditional pubs are absolutely quieter.
I am a 35 year old woman and I occasionally go to the pub by myself after my kids are in bed. Sometimes my dh is so tired from his long hours, but I work from home all day so I feel like talking. So I'll go to an old man's pub down the road for a bit. I know everyone there and they know me, we chat about the world and noone gets their phone out. I love old pub culture! However, people often ask me if we're getting divorced because a woman in a pub by herself is beyond comprehension apparently!

WillimNot · 29/04/2025 21:28

It's more than the smoking ban, cost of living and covid have killed many.

I run a pub for a brewery as a Tenant, prior to this I bar managed for someone else.

We've been open since August and have yet to pay ourselves. DH and I are the staff, we clean, serve pints, do all the marketing and social media. You name it, we do it.

Breweries are land owners, not breweries. They care only if they make money, they don't maintain their pubs until they're practically falling down. In our private living space for which we pay rent, part of he ceiling collapsed in the hallway in August and was reported straight away. It's still not been looked at let alone fixed.

Our brewery isn't the worst one but aren't great
We've had very little support. They expect the pub to be the talk of the town, without realising that when they allowed the last person to run it as a drug, prostitution and theft ring, it's going to take longer than 6 months to turn that perception around in an affluent, snobby area. We've not been here a year yet and it's getting there, but only very recently and down to things I've done. I work 18 hour days, whilst looking after two autistic teens.

As a pub, you can't just sell beer anymore, it's not enough. In our pub, we researched what was our competition, I posed on Facebook in the biggest local group saying I had heard the pub was being redeveloped. Very naughty of course but I asked the admin! It sparked a conversation of people who used to love the place but would never drink there anymore due to how it had gone so badly down hill. It made me go for the community local approach, however we do also get travellers in from the local Travelodge whose bar is extortionate.

We host clubs, in fact I never say no to a club.
We've hired out our kitchen as it would cost too much to run ourselves. We also allowed a food truck in the carpark too. Both pay me rent and bring food to customers. I've helped out with the local Lions Club.

We hosted 4 people for Christmas lunch this year who would've been on their own, we had a great time.

It's hard! And then we have the odd truly vile customer in which gets us down.

I love what I do, but it's never ending. I could get a job in a supermarket, work far more sociable hours, and get a wage each month! And sleep!

Take Sky sports-£25k we got quoted for a year (we declined).
HMRC is thousands a month. Accountant - £500 a month. PRS licenses so we can play music and host bands is £200 a month. And they're sneaky because they watch and if they decide you've hosted too much music they will make you pay more. Drinks cost us between £1k (bad week) and £3k (good week) a week. Our first order when we were reopening was £11k! Rent is £3k a month. Then council tax as well (£212 a month). Bands are between £80-300 a time.

It's why I always say if you can support a pub, do. If the industry dies that's a lot of people out of a job, I'd be homeless, as would many others. Its why we are all collectively livid at Labour and their stupid "penny off the pint" fantasy. When Guinness alone has gone up by 4.7% a barrel, no, we can't give you money off a pint. We know it's expensive. We know you can grab a four pack from Aldi.

Anyway that's my take as a landlady!

WoahThreeAces · 29/04/2025 21:37

The internet killed pub quiz machines ☹️

SullivanCh · 29/04/2025 21:41

WillimNot · 29/04/2025 21:28

It's more than the smoking ban, cost of living and covid have killed many.

I run a pub for a brewery as a Tenant, prior to this I bar managed for someone else.

We've been open since August and have yet to pay ourselves. DH and I are the staff, we clean, serve pints, do all the marketing and social media. You name it, we do it.

Breweries are land owners, not breweries. They care only if they make money, they don't maintain their pubs until they're practically falling down. In our private living space for which we pay rent, part of he ceiling collapsed in the hallway in August and was reported straight away. It's still not been looked at let alone fixed.

Our brewery isn't the worst one but aren't great
We've had very little support. They expect the pub to be the talk of the town, without realising that when they allowed the last person to run it as a drug, prostitution and theft ring, it's going to take longer than 6 months to turn that perception around in an affluent, snobby area. We've not been here a year yet and it's getting there, but only very recently and down to things I've done. I work 18 hour days, whilst looking after two autistic teens.

As a pub, you can't just sell beer anymore, it's not enough. In our pub, we researched what was our competition, I posed on Facebook in the biggest local group saying I had heard the pub was being redeveloped. Very naughty of course but I asked the admin! It sparked a conversation of people who used to love the place but would never drink there anymore due to how it had gone so badly down hill. It made me go for the community local approach, however we do also get travellers in from the local Travelodge whose bar is extortionate.

We host clubs, in fact I never say no to a club.
We've hired out our kitchen as it would cost too much to run ourselves. We also allowed a food truck in the carpark too. Both pay me rent and bring food to customers. I've helped out with the local Lions Club.

We hosted 4 people for Christmas lunch this year who would've been on their own, we had a great time.

It's hard! And then we have the odd truly vile customer in which gets us down.

I love what I do, but it's never ending. I could get a job in a supermarket, work far more sociable hours, and get a wage each month! And sleep!

Take Sky sports-£25k we got quoted for a year (we declined).
HMRC is thousands a month. Accountant - £500 a month. PRS licenses so we can play music and host bands is £200 a month. And they're sneaky because they watch and if they decide you've hosted too much music they will make you pay more. Drinks cost us between £1k (bad week) and £3k (good week) a week. Our first order when we were reopening was £11k! Rent is £3k a month. Then council tax as well (£212 a month). Bands are between £80-300 a time.

It's why I always say if you can support a pub, do. If the industry dies that's a lot of people out of a job, I'd be homeless, as would many others. Its why we are all collectively livid at Labour and their stupid "penny off the pint" fantasy. When Guinness alone has gone up by 4.7% a barrel, no, we can't give you money off a pint. We know it's expensive. We know you can grab a four pack from Aldi.

Anyway that's my take as a landlady!

You sound an amazing person. Good luck with it all! ❤️💪

OP posts:
WillimNot · 29/04/2025 21:42

SullivanCh · 29/04/2025 21:41

You sound an amazing person. Good luck with it all! ❤️💪

That's very kind of you, thank you.

mellongoose · 29/04/2025 21:42

Cheap supermarket booze and Netflix killed the pub.

ethelredonagoodday · 29/04/2025 22:05

We’re exceptionally lucky to live in large village that has 3 pubs and a community centre with a good bar. They all have slightly different offerings, all do food, but slightly different types, most do some sort of events, like quizzes, show sports fixtures, have bands or music on, and support local events in the village. They’re well used and popular despite some of them charging prices not dissimilar to those you’d pay in london. But as many have said, they appeal to a wide range of people including families, and in all cases the teams running them are working their backsides off to make them a success. I’ve been a barmaid in the past and I think it’s incredibly hard work, and many people don’t appreciate what a skill it is to be able to make a success of a hospitality type business!

ethelredonagoodday · 29/04/2025 22:06

@WillimNotI really hope you get the success you deserve, it sounds as though you are giving it your all.

Grammarnut · 29/04/2025 23:17

I was in the pub tonight - nice place in a villagey suburb - and it was pretty busy for a week night. Serves food, outside seating etc. In a different pub on Sunday, real ale, no TV, no music, dogs allowed*, sells crisps and the occasinal roll, and is a real ale pub (i.e. cask ale). Enjoying lots of custom. One of 5 in walking distance of my house, all flourishing. Pubs are not dying where I live.
*all the local pubs allow dogs.

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 23:31

I grew up in the 80s and I have fond memories of going to the pub for lunchtime most Fridays in my first job and regularly meeting friends in pubs.

I met some friends in a pub last night and my alcohol free beer was 4.75. I don’t drink anymore due to meds.

my young adult kids, neither of them really drink, they’ll have a glass at Christmas but that’s about it.

They’re expensive places to be these days. My kids do occasionally socialise in pubs but they’re more likely to meet for coffee or brunch or apparently the new thing in London is late night dessert places.

compare with how popular bubble tea places are…

WhenDaisiesPied · 29/04/2025 23:31

It's sad, but the price of a pint these days! dont get me started on wine

WhenDaisiesPied · 29/04/2025 23:32

I mean, don't get me started on the price of wine. But also don't get me started on wine 😁😁😁😁😁

kittenkipping · 29/04/2025 23:57

Cardiff and Newport pub culture is almost dead. I think because wales is poverty stricken. The richest here are still relatively poor. The same can be said of northern England and Scotland.

Newport more than most cities is struggling. Despite the regeneration of the market, friars walk has failed and the high street is dead.

Cardiff fares better. Yes the Borough, the Queens vaults, the rummer and the goat major are all still standing. But they aren’t the roaring profit they were. And when you consider that Cardiff is the capital of Wales that’s not great.

video killed the radio star. The internet killed the high street in shopping. Which in turn killed the pubs. Exacerbated by lockdown- which taught all of us that we can drink at home at a fraction of the cost. I struggle to pay £20 for a bottle of wine I KNOW I can buy for £8. So too we need to consider work from home culture- liquid lunch and after work drinks within city centre is no more. I’m certain (having worked in a Cardiff office in the late 90s/ early 00s) that this will have had an impact. My team 12-2 could land £2/300 quid easily in a pub. Also how much the internet has replaced jobs- I worked in Newport passport office for a time- this is a role that has largely been replaced by computers. When the passport office was there, most of the office would leave and be seen in the Windsor and the potters (before the potters became unbearably gentrified) every day.

So, my argument is that there are many factors involved. But it is sad imo.

SullivanCh · 30/04/2025 00:14

kittenkipping · 29/04/2025 23:57

Cardiff and Newport pub culture is almost dead. I think because wales is poverty stricken. The richest here are still relatively poor. The same can be said of northern England and Scotland.

Newport more than most cities is struggling. Despite the regeneration of the market, friars walk has failed and the high street is dead.

Cardiff fares better. Yes the Borough, the Queens vaults, the rummer and the goat major are all still standing. But they aren’t the roaring profit they were. And when you consider that Cardiff is the capital of Wales that’s not great.

video killed the radio star. The internet killed the high street in shopping. Which in turn killed the pubs. Exacerbated by lockdown- which taught all of us that we can drink at home at a fraction of the cost. I struggle to pay £20 for a bottle of wine I KNOW I can buy for £8. So too we need to consider work from home culture- liquid lunch and after work drinks within city centre is no more. I’m certain (having worked in a Cardiff office in the late 90s/ early 00s) that this will have had an impact. My team 12-2 could land £2/300 quid easily in a pub. Also how much the internet has replaced jobs- I worked in Newport passport office for a time- this is a role that has largely been replaced by computers. When the passport office was there, most of the office would leave and be seen in the Windsor and the potters (before the potters became unbearably gentrified) every day.

So, my argument is that there are many factors involved. But it is sad imo.

Wow I got my last passport at Newport !

OP posts:
Mrsbloggz · 30/04/2025 00:18

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 29/04/2025 19:55

I think that pubs are dying out because of larger economics. People can’t afford an alcohol habit or to go out to eat every week.

I read this as lager economics😆

araiwa · 30/04/2025 02:24

I think millennium Eve started the decline of pubs and clubs in the UK.

Many places were really greedy with just normal pubs charging an entrance fee to get in. One of the clubs in town were asking £200 for a ticket and I remember going shopping in town 30th December and they had pr reps wandering around giving free tickets to shoppers.

So many people had house parties instead for far less money than going out would cost where you can choose your own music, not have random dickheads, no ridiculous taxi fees etc and then people realised this also applied to a regular Friday night

The economy, covid etc just added to it

AllesAusLiebe · 30/04/2025 02:28

colta · 29/04/2025 21:02

I never liked the pub to be honest, rarely went. Coffee shops are always busy with friends meeting and chatting. They seem to have survived the internet, blossomed at the same time if anything, perhaps people are just not drinking as much anymore?

The only person I know who goes to the pub regularly is a 78 year old man with liver disease.

You sound like a hoot. . .

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