To think video may have killed the radio star but the internet killed the pub!

[SullivanCh]

What made me write this is my grandparents kept a town centre pub in the 40s and 50s. My dad grew up in the pub. My Dad said that his parents - who died before I was born - used to provide Xmas dinner every year for homeless men and cater for those at the margins of society. This has got me thinking lately.

It seems to me pubs at the time - the 40s/50s - then fulfilled one of functions that the internet now fills - helping marginalized people feel included and integrated.

i started drinking in pubs in 1990 - it’s been widely written about that pub attendance and culture have diminished since this time - I’ve seen it myself with pubs I grew up with in my local area closing etc etc .

People often suggest that pub culture declined a lot following the smoking ban - this may be right but personally I think the internet was more responsible for killing pub culture. Not just to help lonely or marginalised people like I mentioned above, but the internet helps people in general interact and connect from the comfort of their own homes - where drinks and snacks are cheaper, everything’s less hassle etc etc …,

So maybe you all disagree with me but I feel the internet has a lot to do with the demise of the pub - more than the smoking ban I think. Any thoughts?

Me too, I’m in Cardiff and I can’t imagine those old pubs not being there!
I used to live near the Cow & Snuffers in Llandaff North and was really quite sad when it closed. I agree though, it’s a combination of all sorts- cost of drinks, changing attitudes, covid, other entertainment being available, easier/more comfortable to stay at home etc. Covid and now the cost of living crisis has been the last straw for many.
But take heart - at least you can still go to the Vulcan in St Fagans museum!

My local witherspoon is thriving.

Shocking prices though.

I was a (very) mature student a few years ago and we went to the pub (granted it was 'spoons) on our last day. Everyone was on their phones ordering their own drinks which were served at their table.

Back in the day I remember queueing at the bar and chatting to others (sometimes arguing who was first) but there was always banter and chatting up going on. This was how a lot of people met their partners or one nighters. It made me sad to think folk don't interact in the same way. So yes, I think pubs operate in a different way now which might impact on how the traditional pub is used.

I think when they started to charge £4+ a pint and wine more per glass what it costs to buy an entire bottle that's what killed the pub. Plus nicer homes with more entertainment options in them and people wanting healthier lifestyles or simply having kids and moving on. We couldn't go out for drinks after work as soon as we had DD1 as we had to get back to the childminder. Then we simply never resumed the habit of going to the pub a couple of times a week. Loads of others our age (Gen X) who were big drinkers and the mainstay of pub clientele in our 20s growing up, having kids and not going to the pub so much any more = a national trend. Then younger generations never picking up the habit because of cost and other entertainment options.

I think there's a whole load of things that are killing the pub trade, not sure I'd blame the internet directly. But it's affect on the way we socialise definitely is a factor. Let's face it, the internet has killed many things - physical banks, the high street, cinemas, no end of sports/hobbies that people just do online equivalents of from their sofa.

There are other things that affected pubs as well, certainly the smoking ban was one, utility costs another. Cheap supermarket booze arguably a factor too. Pubs grew out of the demand for coaching inns, so you could blame the motor car in part as well.

I think the smoking ban could have been done differently - pubs could have been allowed to have licensed smoking rooms - a room that's sealed/ventilated away from the rest of the building where smoking is allowed. That would have let traditional pubs with separate rooms to have an upper hand over big, open plan characterless pubs that wouldn't be able to facilitate a smoking room. Smokers still smoke when they go to the pub, just they now do it outside the front/back door where everyone else still gets exposed to it on their way through. So licences smoking rooms wouldn't be any worse for anyone's health than what we currently have. Could maybe even have weed smoking rooms in pubs, bit like the cafes in Amsterdam...

But one of the main things that often gets overlooked is the property investor type pub co's that buy up many pubs and then get tenants on excessive rents and beer ties so they can't make any money. These pubs end up neglected and run into the ground, closing down as considered unviable and then demolished or converted to housing. But if they were owner ran they probably would still be viable.

I think every pub should automatically get protected status - like a listed building. A law that says they can't be demolished or converted to another use (without a very stringent decision making process). Also tax breaks for beers and wines sold for on consumption. There was talk of making legislation to protect publicans from unfair beer ties, but don't think that ever came to anything.

I'm certainly trying, I'm very lucky to have a group of absolutely lovely regulars who keep me laughing daily. For every knob end there's plenty of stars. Our open mic night for instance is a highlight, spoiled for talent and it's like a mini concert in my living room! As a music lover it's a pleasure to host a varied range of bands, solo acts and such and we have open mic and at least one band/singer a month. Definitely highlights.

There are multiple reasons, and the internet is just one of those.

As well as those mentioned, one that's not come up yet is drugs. There is a great deal more cocaine consumed in the pubs near me than there used to be, which fits with the general trend in the UK of more being done. Some of the people who go in for a night out will now buy less alcohol than they used to because of it, and put some of that money towards coke. If you multiply that across a year, it's going to make a big difference.

Not very salubrious, but it's how things are in some areas. The sort of person who wants to have a big night out and has money to put towards it can buy substances other than alcohol inside the building.

Internet, defo stuff like dating apps, Facebook, forums
Messaging
smoking ban
Cost of pints
Drink driving laws
Less drinking, more health aware
more nice fancy bars around
less community, less knowing everyone
People marry who they want and don’t need to escape each other as much
women don’t put up with men being in the pub all the time
less industrial jobs

saying all that there are still plenty about

Same here.

Our local does lovely food and allows dogs in the pub area. There are some lovely walks. We're middle aged and meet friends there. Our oldest DD is very health conscious but still goes out with friends a lot.

I think lifestyle changes and cost of living are behind the change. I am mid 40s. Dh and I definitely grew up in a go to the pub for everything era. We used to go probably 4 days a week in our 20s.

Twenty years later, I cannot think of anything more boring than sitting around in the pub. I don’t drink. Dh might have a drink or two. It’s dark and dingy in there. The food is all frozen and reheated, not as nice as I could cook myself and a whole lot more money.

If I wanted to do something I enjoy in my free time, it would be gardening, hiking, swimming, Dh would go cycling, we’d go to the beach. If I wanted to meet friends for a coffee or food, I’d be much more likely to go to a cafe. Or we go to each other’s houses, have a bbq or a campfire at home. I will go to the pub, but only under duress if someone insists.

The pubs that are booming around here are the ones that have changed with the times. Really good, niche menu offerings. Nice coffees and teas. Alcohol free drinks and fresh juices. Nice outdoor space. Ice cream cart outside for the kids in the summer. Hosting annual beer/food/music/seafood festivals. Dungeons and dragons night (I’m not kidding). Monthly book club. I saw one that’s doing a monthly [insert any popular dog breed] night, where your dog gets a free doggie ice cream if a lab, sausage dog, yorkie, whatever.

What killed the pub ? IMO

Lack of ability to smoke.
Cost of alcohol which is horrendous these days.
Good sports TV at home on the big screen.

Why does anyone bother to go to the pub to watch sports for example when you can get a better view from the sofa and it will cost you a fraction of the price in cans of beer ?

Agree. And the cost of hearing them now must be astronomical. It's so sad as they are the one last thing we have left to provide a sense of community. A true British tradition. If I were in Government I'd try and help them with all sorts of cuts and incentives.

Prices, cost of living, increasing lack of free time, less drinking alcohol and less childcare/more understanding of children needing structure and bed time are all contributers. Internet probably has impacted a lot of things including going to watch events in pubs but it's certainly not the only thing.

I loved going to the pub of an evening but pregnancy and parenting killed it off. I hope to return to the pub when I’m done with the hard yards, I miss it a lot

This was us, didnt go much when the children were young. Now they've grown up with have a busy social life. Not just to pubs but we do go.

Not all pub food is frozen rubbish if you go to the nicer places.

Cost killed the pub. I used to be able to go out and get drunk all weekend on £30 with money to spare in the late 90’s. That’s not possible now.

Ah yes forgot that one, keeping kids away from them and staying home with them

Don’t know any pubs struggling. In fact, went out for a pub crawl on Saturday there and there were at least 12 other groups (that I counted, marked separate by their co/ordinated dress up outfits) doing the same pub crawl at the same time I was there. Which was only 1pm btw.

All my locals and regulars are always heaving on Fridays and Saturdays and well sustained throughout the week. If your locals are closing I think it’s an issue with the pub themselves rather than people not drinking. Or as PP said, the rising costs making it harder to afford.

Certainly don’t understand how it’s anything to do with internet.

We were used to going to the pub in our teens and twenties, as students. What put us off eventually, was the price. On Sunday, we had 2 soft drinks and a packet of peanuts each for £8.15, because we were doing a long drive and were thirsty.

We would rather eat in a pub, on a meal deal each for £10 with a drink. It saves us cooking and washing up, and we feel we had a treat. We might as well buy soft drinks and a snack to have at home, for a quarter of the price - the pub doesn’t save any effort, and it’s not a treat in the same way!

The internet didn't kill the pub people just aren't that interested in drinking these days that's why there's so many zero alcohol drinks now people would rather do other things 😊

I think YABU.

Firstly, I do think you are over romanticising the role of pubs. Your family pub might have catered for the homeless at Christmas but not all did. And some still do. There is/was certainly a community element to them.

I think the Internet has ruined a lot of things, but I'm not sure the pub is one of them. I worked in a 'local' pub in the late 90s. It was nearly all the same people, largely men, drinking the same drinks, sitting in the same seats. Often they would drive home after I know they had had 7 or 8 pints!

I think there have been big societal shifts that have moved people away from pubs, at least as frequently as they used to go:

• men going to work then going to the pub every night is not acceptable to most family set ups.
• drinking all night and driving home is no longer acceptable.
• even before the current cost of living crisis, I don't think people can really afford to be out drinking every night.
• we all know being out drinking all night isn't good for our health!

I don't think it's the case that pubs have died, just that the frequency with which people go has declined massively. In rural areas that might be a big issue. But in busier locations, it's probably fine.

I think this depends on the type of pub. The days of workmen drinking half their weeks wages while their wives keep a dinner warm for them until they decide to come home are gone, I think this has been a general society shift and a good one too. Rural pubs were affected more by the laws around drink driving. As for younger people I think the Internet is responsible. I used to catch up with friends to get their news, first thing we would do after returning from holiday or after a first date or after a stressful event would be to phone and arrange to meet in the pub. Now with SM and access to each other's photos, those catch ups are not as necessary. I'm not sure about the cost element, I think its more priority changes. The young people I know might complain about the price of a drink, yet have professionally done nails and eyebrows and have a gym membership and eat out once in a while. In my day (90s) the drink money would have been priority for most, no one had the money to eat out, that was something your parents did not 19/20 yr olds.

I also think the pub culture increased a lot and peaked in early 00s. It seemed to explode in 90s where i lived. I'd be interested to know what the stats are if we compared today to the early 80s, perhaps it's a rise and fall model.

No opinion on pubs but I have a persistent earworm in my head now so thanks OP

Many factors but the main one for me is that men are now expected to do their part at home instead of drinking at the pub while their wife cooks them dinner and looks after the kids.
Also the fact that we now know how bad alcohol is for us / we want to be more healthy.

The young people I know might complain about the price of a drink, yet have professionally done nails and eyebrows and have a gym membership and eat out once in a while
Isn’t it because out of the things you listed, the pub is the one that can be easily reproduced at home for a fraction of the price?