To think video may have killed the radio star but the internet killed the pub!

[SullivanCh]

What made me write this is my grandparents kept a town centre pub in the 40s and 50s. My dad grew up in the pub. My Dad said that his parents - who died before I was born - used to provide Xmas dinner every year for homeless men and cater for those at the margins of society. This has got me thinking lately.

It seems to me pubs at the time - the 40s/50s - then fulfilled one of functions that the internet now fills - helping marginalized people feel included and integrated.

i started drinking in pubs in 1990 - it’s been widely written about that pub attendance and culture have diminished since this time - I’ve seen it myself with pubs I grew up with in my local area closing etc etc .

People often suggest that pub culture declined a lot following the smoking ban - this may be right but personally I think the internet was more responsible for killing pub culture. Not just to help lonely or marginalised people like I mentioned above, but the internet helps people in general interact and connect from the comfort of their own homes - where drinks and snacks are cheaper, everything’s less hassle etc etc …,

So maybe you all disagree with me but I feel the internet has a lot to do with the demise of the pub - more than the smoking ban I think. Any thoughts?

The only pubs that have survived near me are ones that are family oriented. Gone are the ones that men would go into outside the station to avoid parenting for a few hours.

I love the Borough! And the Rummer Tavern. And the piece de resistance of traditional Cardiff pubs…the Old Arcade.

Not many of these left now, it’s so sad.

@SullivanCh , I think you do have a point in that the internet has been a contributory factor, along with the usual suspects of the smoking ban, Covid, CoL crisis etc in the demise of the local pub. Also (and I promise I am not Tim Martin!!) the VAT anomaly between pubs and supermarkets plays a role.

I am from Newport and have lived in SE Wales most of my life and wow, some of the wonderful pubs we have lost, and I never thought we would lose, because they were so fab…

Ever noticed how the Wetherspoons pubs are always pretty full (around these parts, anyway) when others aren’t? People seem to like to knock the Spoons but, by the same token, they also seem to like to go there.

I share your nostalgia x

Prices killed the pub. Where I live you need a second mortgage to buy a round.

Yes - also Toby Carveries

I think it's more cost than anything else. Go to Spain and a glass of wine and a pint is five or six euros, sometimes even less. Everyone's out - old and young, pensioners, families. Here in the southeast it can be £14, even £16 in London. for the same two drinks. Buy two rounds and you've spent £30. It's become really hard to afford or justify.

There are lots of factors, like any decline it’s complex.

but another factor was the relaxing of licensing laws in the 2000’s. It meant that a wide variety of shops could sell booze at all hours, and put them on special offer/ discount. The types of establishment that could sell alcohol changed.

pubs could stay open longer but so could other bars. People moved away from hard drinking environments into restaurants, theatre bars, cafes etc.

the laws were designed to develop a more continental attitude to alcohol, ie a beer in a cafe then home. To some extent, it has been successful. Like all major legislative/ behavioural changes, it’s taken a long time

It's a range of things but cost is up there.
Every landlord I know says the cost of everything is so high, and rising. Even the pubs which are busy aren't making much profit. This means high prices and reduced opening hours.

The shift in the role of men and women will have obviously contributed.

I also heard today that Gen Z drink less alcohol than any other demographic.

I think the range of pub types is the issue.

Used to be rough old pubs, music niche pubs, olde worlde, wine bars, modern pubs plus there was always an under age pub. Food was pub grub in some of the nicer ones.

Now they are mostly very nice gastro pubs with a few spoons type places.

In the eighties and nineties we went to the pub to meet up with friends even went on my own as there would always be someone I knew there. I don't think young people in their 20s go to pubs much anymore maybe wetherspoons for pre drinks but my DS 24 goes to a Working mens club a lot and enjoys playing darts and snooker with his mates and seeing the bands they have on at the weekends.

It’s not as much cost as people think. I worked for a company that was buying up pubs in 2012 and coverting them into residential. The breweries were off loading them then due to lack of trade. It’s reached pretty much the end of the road now, but the decline has been gradual and going on for 15 odd years, easily. It’s not the cost of living crisis although maybe that’s sped up the decline

Totally this. I was thinking the other day if I needed to speak to a friend about a problem, vent about a bad day, share news etc I’d call them and tell them to meet me in the pub. Everything was better discussed over a pint or glass of wine.

now I don’t need to have those conversations- I don’t know if young people still have them

Yes, since the 2008 crash imho. We haven’t recovered from that yet btw.

I used to work in the hospitality industry, back in Ye Olden Dayes. It’s not just one thing that has decimated the industry, it’s a succession of social & legal changes going back decades.

Drink driving laws hammered rural pubs. The decline of factories ended the tradition of working men stopping off at the pub for a couple of pints before going home for their dinner. Supermarkets using cases of beer as loss-leaders led to more people drinking at home, as did big TVs, DVD / Netflix / Sky Sports etc etc providing a much bigger choice of entertainment at home. The smoking ban reduced visits to pubs. Employers put a stop to office workers going to the pub at lunchtimes, which was once a big thing on Fridays. Demographic change driven by immigration means that large numbers of today’s young people don’t drink alcohol at all. Students are too skint to go to the pub. Dating apps killed off the traditional nightclub as the place to meet potential partners. Friday & Saturday nights in city centres are dead these days, unrecognisable from how busy they were in the 90s. Ever-increasing costs means trips to pubs are far more expensive than they used to be. The first pint I ever sold cost 68p in 1985. That’s £2.08 in today’s money.

It’s a wonder there are any pubs left at all. It’s a dying industry.

Our local pubs have dart and snooker leagues. My mum's area has skittles.

They're social places often for older people.

Yep a sort of cascade of failures.

Your grandparents pub sounds fab but most pubs back then only let in people from backgrounds they wanted to, not very exclusive or integrated. My relatives from back then were not allowed in local pubs to us.

Pubs are thriving in my town, we have 15 pubs and bars for a town of 27,000 people and all are busy on weekends and even this evening all will have plenty of customers. People do use the internet on their phones at the pub sometimes though

I never liked the pub to be honest, rarely went. Coffee shops are always busy with friends meeting and chatting. They seem to have survived the internet, blossomed at the same time if anything, perhaps people are just not drinking as much anymore?

The only person I know who goes to the pub regularly is a 78 year old man with liver disease.

I think alcohol killed the drunk old man and they've not really been replaced because younger people don't drink the same way.

I don't think it's because of the smoking ban, or the Internet. I think it's just not what people want to do anymore. Maybe coffee shops have killed the pub..🤔

The Wat Tyler, old Ferrier Estate in Kidbrooke 😂 long gone in the redevelopment of Kidbrooke Village (😂)

I'm not so sure about that...I think having all the facts at your fingertips can enhance a pub discussion! (and send you off on a whole different tangent)

Ha, yes, and you could actually find people that way. Which isn't really necessary now that your friends all have mobiles.

I remember the days when you'd be trying to remember who sang a song for days but no way of figuring it out. Or checking song lyrics.

And women rarely felt welcome, especially unaccompanied. I like that I can feel comfortable going in most pubs on my own nowadays.

I definitely think the increased shoving home entertainment had a lot to do with it

in 1982 we vs only had 3 channels etc