To say that university degrees are barely impressive anymore?

[PithyKhakiShaker]

It feels like degrees are everywhere now and half the time they don’t guarantee anything - not a good job, not better thinking skills, not even basic literacy sometimes. Obviously education matters but AIBU to think degrees have become so common and so varied in quality that they aren’t as impressive or meaningful as they used to be?

Sometimes, someone who is a native speaker is the very worst sort of teacher because they have no appreciation for how an English person goes about learning the grammar in their native language. For instance someone whose only qualification is being a native German speaker might struggle to explain cases and genders because it comes naturally to them. The idea that if you can do something, you can also be good at teaching it is wrong. It’s often not the case.

So if the teachers weren't teaching your kids grammar ( with their degrees) why would someone like you who knew the grammar do a worse job just because they didn't have a degreee

Didn't take long for the predictable 'mickey mouse' response. 🙄

If you think the only valuable degree is STEM degree then you're very wrong.

Can they all get degree jobs or are they getting into huge debt for nothing?

50 years ago!

50 years previous to 70s would be the 1920s

Did you wish you were being taught like 1920s kids when you were at school?

Predictability is an indicator of being closer to certainty.

And no, you are wrong. Because if you were right, you’d look up what stem grads earn vs those with Mickey Mouse degrees.

Facts, eh.

I’m literally have no idea what you’re trying to say, sorry. Are you saying that teachers don’t need to teach grammar in a foreign language?

You're wrong on pretty much every point you've made here.

Depends on the profession you choose.

In my profession, we take on graduates. Someone without a degree would not be considered. Also, I expect a 2:1 minimum. The university doesn’t matter.

IIRC, about 24% of people born 1980-2000 got a first Uni degree by the age of 25 yrs old. This thread is making me muse... what % would posters like to make them feel that University degrees were "impressive" again. 10% ? 5% ? Do posters truly believe that completing a degree before 1997 was mostly about ability and not opportunity ?

Nope I'm saying that you said ( in English) that your kids had learned less grammar than you did at school. Yet they are being taught by someone degree educated. How is that to their advantage? Surely they'd be better off learning from someone who can teach well including the grammar but no degree, rather than someone with a degree who doesnt teach the grammar

Most of them do get degree jobs in the end. Even if not immediately. Graduates on average earn more than non graduates especially across a lifetime. Later on in life, the gap is significant.
I graduated in law from an RG uni and was temping in a bank for a while so that I could go travelling. I remember some of the other temps scoffing and saying that what was the point of my degree because we were all doing the same job and at least they had no debt. I just smiled and nodded. If they wanted think that, fine by me. You need to compare the position of grads vs non grads 5, 10, 15, 20 years down the line and see what they are earning compared to someone who left at 18.

While trade type jobs can pay well, those generally aren’t done by women (plumbers, builders, electricians). Women’s “trades” tend to be much lower paid, hairdressers for instance.

It's also worth noting, esp to those commenting on the NHS's focus on masters degrees for management roles, that medical doctors go to university for 7 years... but come away without an actual degree!!

From the outside looking in, quite a chunk of university learning has been watered down and treated as a rite of passage by people who would never have considered it (or been capable of passing the selection process) thirty or so years ago.

Friends of ours spent a small fortune (which they were in a position to afford) supporting their daughter through a hair and make-up course at former technical college, which now has university status. Although the family home was within easy commuting distance, the daughter wanted the whole university experience and chose to live in halls, enjoying the full student lifestyle - more expense.

Following graduation she worked in various retail shops - Next, River Island, etc - before taking her current job as a receptionist in a hairdressing salon.

In the good old days, she'd probably have left school at 16 and walked into any of those jobs.

Technical colleges provided good practical training for the less academically gifted, and getting rid of them was equally as bad (or mad) as doing away with the SEN nursing qualification - but that's a discussion to be had elsewhere.

.

And no, you are wrong. Because if you were right, you’d look up what stem grads earn vs those with Mickey Mouse degrees.

Facts, eh.

I'm not wrong. I have comprehensive understanding of the university system and the graduate labour market. It's my job.

Firstly, there is no such thing as a 'mickey mouse' degree. It's a meaningless phrase people use to undermine degree subjects they personally don't see value in.

Secondly, salary is too simplistic a measure of graduate success. Which is why the sector uses a range of measures. Salary is heavily influenced by sector, socioeconomic background of the graduate and location. There are a range of valuable graduate jobs which don't attract high salaries, such as nurses, teachers etc.
All reasons we should use salary as the single measure of success. It needs a more holistic approach.

Thirdly, the UK graduate labour market is skills based. 86% of graduate jobs don't specify a degree subject. They're looking for the skills developed while undertaking degree level study.

You what?

well that’s news to my nhs Consultant husband….
As he’s just said with a weird incredulous look on his face actually it’s 5yrs and you walk away with 2 degrees (he’s actually got 3 now)

He’d live to know where you got that piece of misinformation

Im very happy I went to uni as the job I do cannot be done without one.

For other people, yeah. Maybe it’s not the best plan.

Yes precisely. They get a bachelor of medicine and bachelor of surgery degree. After five years. And many courses award a BSc after three years as well.
I also suspect that most of the “degrees aren’t impressive”, “doctors don’t get degrees” and “only STEM counts” comments come from people who have ever been to uni.

Depends on the degree I guess. My daughter wants to be an educational psychologist and needs to do a doctorate so she is at uni doing psychology then she'll do 2 years of working then try to get on a doctorate course. For her it is necessary. My DS is brilliant with coding/programming etc and left school at 16 and got an apprenticeship which he is about to finish. A degree would have been a waste for him really as computer science is so poorly taught in schools and unis and never really manages to stay caught up to how fast IT moves. My daughters boyfriend does CS and I hope he doesn't struggle to find work - hopefully the placement year he has done will have been helpful. He is lucky that an inheritance paid his fees so there is no debt.

I guess because learning a foreign language at school is different to English classes at school. English as a subject in school is mostly literature now. Most young people have little knowledge about English Language despite being fluent. But if you learn a new foreign language at school rather than being immmersed in a language in a country you generally learn by language structure - verb structure etc. So if a fluent English speaker couldn’t teach English language then a fluent Spanish speaker might not have the knowledge to teach it as a foreign language to a non native speaker. So I’d rather my kids were taught a language by someone who knew all the proper grammatical terms.

I think I depends on what your career choices are surely.
I can't progress in my chosen career without completing a degree so it's worth it to me. My sibling however didn't need one, so not worth it!
My partner has 3...earnt 2 in job roles, didn't pay for them.

I think the attitude and approach to them has changed maybe

I had a large social circle of friends who were newly qualified doctors in my 20s and some took gap years to do conversion courses to get degrees (i.e. final year of a degree in a relevant subject). As I saw them do this, I never questioned it, but do technically work in a Public Health department (albeit in a counter terrorism related role) - so will ask one of the consultants I work with to educate myself 🙂

I made the comment and have a BA (Hons) and MA, albeit both in humanities mickey mouse subjects.

I studied part time at night school for 10 years for those degrees and got a lot out of it.

But see so many graduates with poor work ethics and no interest in producing quality work.

And work with plenty of people without degrees who are amazing - including with the quality of their written work - but lack confidence in themselves.

I find it depressing.

But you’d be qualified to teach English as a foreign language with a TEFL qualification, which is not equivalent to a degree…