To say that university degrees are barely impressive anymore?

[PithyKhakiShaker]

It feels like degrees are everywhere now and half the time they don’t guarantee anything - not a good job, not better thinking skills, not even basic literacy sometimes. Obviously education matters but AIBU to think degrees have become so common and so varied in quality that they aren’t as impressive or meaningful as they used to be?

Fair enough it's just I remember DC telling me people not wanting to apply to top universities because of the lack of "social life".

Fair enough it's just I remember DC telling me people not wanting to apply to top universities because of the lack of "social life".

For some it will be important but there has definitely been a shift in behaviour.
Gen Z ( so those who are applying to university and are currently at uni) drink less alcohol than any other demographic. They are more health conscious and interested in sustainability so we see these things influencing decisions too.

Fair enough. I'm certainly no expert. And I do agree with what you say.
Do you not think there are quite a few degrees that aren't that helpful in getting someone a career in that field? Again I am happy to be corrected.

There are many degrees that don’t prepare you for a specific career - for example history or geography. Someone who has studied for three years though will have a higher level of education and particularly an ability to understand and distil information and exercise critical thinking. This makes them more suitable for roles where those skills are useful.
I mean if it makes bugger all difference why do we even require A-levels? Why don’t we let kids leave school without qualifications at all to find a trade like they used to decades ago? Surely GCSE maths doesn’t prepare you for a career either?

Do you not think there are quite a few degrees that aren't that helpful in getting someone a career in that field? Again I am happy to be corrected.

We have a skills based labour market. Any degree has the potential to prepare you for a graduate level job. The responsibility is on the student to make the most of that opportunity.

DS is 2019 A-levels group. When he was uni, he did enjoy a good night out. Having a few beers and enjoying it on the dance floor. But DS balanced that with studies.

I'm not at all saying having a party at university is bad. But when DS was at school lots of people didn't want to apply to the top "Tier 1 Unis" because they 'aren't very social". Lots of people did want to say they wanted to go to university for the university life and get that experience.

it depends what you are studying. You still need doctors, nurses, teachers, pharmacists,
scientists to help further scientific innovation which needs specialist training so I disagree etc. I was the first one to go to uni in my family and got degrees from the best institutions. My brother didn’t and I would say while he’s done alright he hasn’t amassed great salaries (his wife is the breadwinner and is a professor in a uni). Me and his wife are both earning 6 figure salaries whereas my husband works in a university and has an ok salary and has 3 degrees - he’s happy in his job and hated working in commercial setting whereas I found it rewarding (in clinical research trying to find innovative therapies for patients often with rare disease). You need to do further study than a levels for all this.

Degrees are the new A-Levels. At one time having A-Levels was an achievement, but as more people stayed on in education and the pass rates rose they lost their prestige and relevance. If lots of people have achieved something, it's no longer such an achievement. Degrees are now in this position, it's the norm for someone to have one. It's still true of course those who don't have degrees are a little lower in the pecking order, but it's more that having a degree is expected rather than something impressive.

In a few years the same thing will happen to Masters degrees and the like: more people will take them, more people will have them, they will no longer be a positive indicator of someone's worth or prospects.

It's an inevitable effect of raising the standards in general. If you bring everyone up to the same level, that level becomes the baseline.

Yes I agree, if I was younger or for my children in the future, I’d steer them towards a degree apprenticeship and then if they wanted to specialise later they could go and do postgraduate study if they wanted.

I am still annoyed I had to go to uni to study nursing, should have been vocational. I also went to the “best” nursing school in the world Kings College London. Could have been an apprenticeship then I could have done a masters after.

Thankfully, the Nursing apprenticeship seems to be brilliant!

I do think for medicine, law, engineering a degree is vital.

Could consider the police? Parenting 4 kids through uni is impressive well done. 👏

Yes I agree, if I was younger or for my children in the future, I’d steer them towards a degree apprenticeship and then if they wanted to specialise later they could go and do postgraduate study if they wanted.

But a degree apprenticeship IS specialist. That's the point.

Degree apprenticeships are brilliant, but they aren't enough of them and they are very competitive.

I don't know why they can't do it more like it was years ago. But I guess I didn't get on well with education. I know it's both useful and enjoyable for many people.

GCSE maths is a stepping stone to A-level maths and being numerically literate generally helps.

My DC use maths in their jobs. My DS's actuary friends use a lot of maths.

What about someone who wants a complete career change to something which now demands degree entry but which years ago would have been trained for on the job from a very junior position with only A-levels, with further professional qualifications done through day release or night school? So many of those jobs eg in allied health care, became degree only. They are in niche areas that most 6th formers wouldn't even think exist so wouldn't consider at 18, but if they went to university straight from school and did a plain science subject, it still wouldn't be enough to get them a job in the allied health role without another specialised degree. And who has money to fund a second degree in their late 20s or early 30s when they realise that what they actually would want to go into is not doable anymore now they have kids and a mortgage with their partner/husband and won't get any funding towards the required degree whatsoever.

FFS there’s always one. 🙄 It’s relevant because it replies to your post assuming that someone without a degree is incapable of being a good teacher. Which demonstrates your ignorance both of the past and indeed the present day. Clearly you’re not aware of private schools or academies or FE colleges or QLTS where a degree isn’t necessarily a requirement to teach. And that’s today not “yesteryear”.

There’s a lot of totally pointless degrees being done by people. I used to work with two young women, both had useless degrees but they just couldn’t fathom why no one at work cared. Lots of people at the company had degrees, but they weren’t necessary for the job and industry qualifications were the one that got you the pay rises. They really believed they were entitled to pay rises because they had a degree in zoology over xyz who didn’t have a degree. The company was nothing even remotely related to zoology. They were unbearable to work with. Bleated on and on about “my degree this and that”, but it was meaningless. They were also the ones who thought that washing their own mug at the end of the day and not leaving it in the sink was below them 😏

You have to know what you want to do for a degree apprenticeship. And you also have to be prepared not to enjoy an in depth study of something you love that is more esoteric, which is one of the joys of doing a degree. My son is a trainee accountant, but his degree in History was more of a joy to him than his training in tax now. He's glad he did it.

So did both my parents…

You do realise that many degrees don't relate to any jobs, that isn't really the point of a degree.

Return on investment for a degree is particularly high for women.

Government data shows women with a degree earn on average 50% more than women who don’t have a degree and leave school with just GCSEs.

Further, I suggest that women who go to university are more likely to meet a higher-earning life partner, which on average grants her a wider array of life choices both personally, in terms of having children, and professionally.

I’m surprised so many people are arguing against this on a forum for women of all
places!

Unless it’s teaching, medical, social work etc then they’re pointless!

Even if it made no difference to my career and earning potential, I would go to university all over again. It was such a great experience and I would hate for any bright, academically minded 18 year-old to miss out on such an experience because she or he could ‘earn more doing a trade’.

With all the masses of graduates do firms really not look at what the university is to decide?

Because that’s how money works. Perhaps if we actually defined a better return on public money use, the country wouldn’t be in such a mess. Public money should not be there for airy fairy largesse so people can feel ‘oh so valuable’ studying underwater basket weaving.

Evidence??